Question Number: 15863

Mechanics 6/22/2007

RE: Rec, Competitive Adult

Al Wielinga of Sarnia, ON Canada asks...

Mechanics question regarding the Canada/US match off-side decision late in the 2nd half.

Speed of play and angle made decision (as to who headed ball) very difficult for AR. Not sure what CR saw. Replay, of course, proves officiating team wrong. Hope FIFA does consider "unscored goal" in ranking decision, eh?

Once had similar situation at a Men's Cup game where I was AR. Onside on free kick, offside on a clear touch/deflection (wasn't sure which team). Goal was scored.

I left flag down because I wasn't sure. Flag up and one yard onto field after goal to chat with CR to make sure since he would not have been able to judge position at all. When he arrived, I asked, "Who deflected?" His reply: "Defender". I said, "Goal good."

On other side, I've been CR when flags go up after kick back by defenders or double plays like this (team mate kicks [player appears onside from my angle] then a defender touch). In all cases, I wave off AR. Usually, no goal, no arguments, no harm done, play goes on. Only once (it happens rarely enough) was a goal scored; I initiated chat and found out I did in fact get it wrong -- player was off both on kick and defender touch.

In terms of mechanics at much higher levels, how much pressure is there to get it right without the chat? Headsets don't appear to be used in these games. Is my way of handling the situation with offside (which I discovered worked mostly by accident) acceptable or is there a better way to handle it?

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Al,
I see you are in the camp of the deflection of the ball off the head was incorrectly thought to be a Canadian head?

Still it was apparant to me the referee had likely blown the whistle BEFORE the goal was scored and right or wrong as the offside call might be, an INDFK out is easier to sell than a drop ball oops!
The great thing about what if, is we examine all possibilities! In a match only one is accepted and acted upon!

As a Canadian referee I need to seperate official from player, coach and especially as a fan!

The goal can not count because as a decision it was a fact of play where the officiating staff decided it was an offside infringement. We always berate those who think what they saw is true and what the officials see must be wrong. The point is it COULD be wrong but since they choose not to award the goal it simply does not matter!

My good friend and colleague Ref Fleischer humored me late last night as I ranted how injust the injustice over the telephone.

The question asked by many is did the referee make the right call?
He supported a member of his team whose responsibility it was to make that judgement so kudoes for the referee! Yes it was the right call whether or not it was correct!

The referee supported the raised offside flag his AR displayed.
In fact it is likely the referee whistled the play dead even before Canada scored the goal. A whistle if heard by the USA keeper might have caused him to relax a bit yes? Especially if he noted the raised flag.

As a Canadian fan I was peeved as I thought it was a good goal. That is watching from my tv armchair where unfortunately our best work is done within our own minds!

In the sequence of play I thought the attacker who scored the goal was onside when his team mate kicked the ball down field and he used the ball's flight time to get inbehind the 2nd last opponent.
As that ball traveled in the air a Canadian, Hume I think, tried to head the ball and in my opinion missed the ball, instead it fell to the head of the American defender who did not miss and the ball was either played or deflected depending on your opinion of what constitutes such things.

The question that blazes around the world why did the AR raise his flag? Not why did the referee support him? I expect my referee to support any flag I raise if I am certain it is so! If he KNOWS something I missed he can choose to disreguard my flag but he can not ignore it.

As a world class official one could expect the AR understands LAW 11 as well as anyone on the face of the planet. It is after all what he is SPECIFICALLY trained to do.

So if the AR held that opinion it would have to be one of these!

The Canadian attacker who scored was in fact offside positioned when his team mate last touched the ball in the AR's opinion be it perceived or true and the ball that contacted the American defender was a deflection which changes nothing with regards to offside play for the Canadian opponents.

The Canadian attacker who scored was not originally offside positioned when his team mate last touched the ball but in the AR's opinion HUME managed a very slight deflection of the ball just prior to the American header. If you look close at any replay the Canadian attacker was offside positioned if indeed this slight touch by Hume percieved or true occurred!

As my esteemed colleague Ref Fleischer and my good friend Chuck obliquely points out the Esse Barharmast 100% correct call in the 98 World Cup that no one saw for several days until the one camera actually focused on that specific spot at that specific moment blazed its truth for all detractors to see

Now either of those two opinions if held by the AR are 100% correct in law whether or not we think different.

It is obvious the AR did not think the American defender played the headed ball with control /possession as that would negate any offside position by a Canadian opponent! I want to point out ALL here on this site look upon the USA header as a DEFLECTION not a controlled possession so if offside position was established the USA header changes nothing!

As a devout Canadian fan it hurts to see it end so ugly but we dug a hole 2 to zip and cannot hold the officials responsible for our poor 1st half instead be grateful for the 4 extra minutes as I thought we were only to get 3.. Yes OT would have tickled me to see it but it shows why you must bury all chances when they come and stop all opponents when you can
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

Al, I have a problem with your discussion. In the first instance where you are the AR you say you asked the CR off whom the ball DEFLECTED. He says defender and you say goal good. That's not correct. If the ball only deflected off the defender to an opponent that was in offside position when the ball was played by a teammate, then this is an offside offence and no goal. In the last part of your discussion you say a "player was off both on kick and defender touch". What do you mean by this? You don't judge offside at a "defenders touch." If he's offside when ball is played by his teammate you are then only concerned whether or not the defender CONTROLLED the ball. It doesn't matter where the attacker subsequently receives the ball. I would hope at all levels of play that if a goal is questionable, the referee crew would do whatever it takes to ake certain to get it right. I will never referee any such high level games but have had to wave off goals on many occasions after chatting with my AR.

Answer provided by Referee Jon Sommer

I too have a problem with what you have said. And so should your CR in the game you describe. If you said to me, "Who deflected it" I would really start to questoin your eligibility on my line. A DEFLECTION does not denote a controlled play which must be the case for offside to be reset by the defender. Offside is never judged by a defender's touch, but by a defenders deliberately controlled touch. If the player was in an offside position when his team mate passed it and as you stated, the defender deflected it, you saying to your CR "Goal good" is completely incorrect. And you have failed yourself, your centre, the players and the game itself.

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