Question Number: 14936

Mechanics 3/4/2007

Jon of London, UK asks...

This question is a follow up to question 14924

Ref Voshol, i am fully aware the signal for advantage!! i was not referring to this signal. as u correctly state, advantage is sweeping from the hips forward. This isn't an advantage situation...it is a 'no, i've seen what you think is a foul and it is in fact a fair challenge' signal. Its not a sweeping motion forward, it is side ways across the body back and forth as if saying NO. It is also common for an official to point at the ball when a challenge goes in as if to say 'ball was won'.

No it isn't a neccessity from the FA to use this signal but it does aide and is advised by the RA. Communication is key and i believe to gain respect from coaching staff you need to have communicate to their players physcially your decision, not just shout it. It also helps mechanics between CR and AR because i sure as hell don't want my assisstant flag flying up when iv made a decision that a challenge was fair and iv clearly seen it.

Its an aide, and a good one used by some of the top officials in arguably the best league in the world...something not to be sneered at in my opinion.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Jon: Our responses must be directed, not only to the one who writes the question, but to readers of what we say. Here I allowed Ref Voshol's answer to stand, even though, I knew it went a bit farther than you wanted. Reason: there should be no confusion as to what signal should be used and when. The 130,000 referees in America have a penchant for using the advantage signal for exactly what you specify, "I saw that, It isn't worthy of anything but this, keep going lads!!!"

They also throw their hands above their head and yell play on. The signal has no meaning in procedure but they saw it someplace and it looked good to them!!

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

Sorry Jon, I got a bit confused by your use of "PLAY ON" in Q#14924. Here, saying "Play on" is equivalent to saying "Advantage". I don't know if that's true in England or not. We have far too many refs who call out "Play on" when they mean "No foul".

I know you know what Advantage is, and would know the proper signal. As Ref Fleischer says, I was speaking to the entire readership. Your fuller description of the "No foul" signal sounds a lot like what I was talking about in Q#14883, a signal we here know as the "Safe" sign in baseball. The arms spread to the side, palms down, then cross in front of the body, then spread to the sides again.

It's interesting that the RA supports alternate/optional signals. USSF's "Guide to Procedures for Referees, Assistant Referees and 4th Officials" says:
[quote]
Alternate signals, procedures, and methods of communication within the officiating team are not authorized for games under the jurisdiction of the United States Soccer Federation using the diagonal system of control. Other signals or methods of communication intended to supplement those described here are permitted only if they do not conflict with established procedures and only if they do not intrude on the game, are not distracting, are limited in number and purpose and are carefully discussed within the officiating team prior to the commencement of the match.
[end quote]

I too think that communication is key, between the referee and AR's, and between the refs and the players. And if we happen to enlighten a few specators along the way, all the better.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Jon you sound a bit testy were you pulling for LIverpool in the man U match?? ;o) Just to echo my colleagues we know you are pretty sharp but many who read this are not at that level. TOO many two handed looks that like advantage calls but are not in the recreational matches we in the trenches try to fix
IF I use two hands other than to show the advantage signal it is only to defend myself! I use only one hand/arm, the non whistle hand when I SHOUT, get on with it, nothing there, play, no no no no, get up, come here, don't want to hear it, thats a shirt pull, push, strike, that is a a dive, go away, stop right there, settle down, well in! You can likely quess how the arm is used as you most likely have done it as well the palm up or down, arm waved up or down, thumbs up, arm out and arm in circled side to side finger point not at anyones face through, balled fist and my facial expressions the players find very easy to read. Astute fans, coaches or parents usually know pretty much what I felt occured even if they disagree and even if they can't hear me which I am told is not often! LOL!.
Cheers

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 14971