Question Number: 15855

Law 11 - Offside 6/22/2007

RE: competive Adult

John allen of crowley, TX United States asks...

Should the goal have counted in the game USA vs Canada in stoppage time?
It never ( Law 11) goes into detail about if a defending player passes or plays the ball back and an offense player is in an offside postion. In our league one Ref will call play on and another will call it offside.
They say that since the player is already offside hence they are offside no matter what happens. The defender clearly had control of the ball and either passed it back or headed it back or a clearing attempt gone wrong.
Is it explained anywhere in the Laws of the game?

Thanks,
John

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Here is what the Law says. A player in an offside position, at the time a team mate plays the ball, may not participate in that play. He may not interfere with play or an opponent or gain advantage from his position until one of three things happen:

The ball is again touched be a team mate and, by that time, the player has attained a position that is no longer offside.

The defence establishes control of the ball

The ball is no longer in play.

You'll note the first two conditions rely on the human element, a determination must be made based on what a human sees. Many things influence how a person views something:

The absolute first is being in a position to see exactly what is going on

second is the ability to comprehend what is seen

third, if part of a team, is to communicate it to another member of a team.

Things that influence all of these are fatigue, the speed at which what is being viewed happens, impairments to vision due to unforeseen events and preconceived notions about the happening.

Fatigue tends to cloud judgement and has an impact on visual acuity. Comprehension is impacted by the number of things going on and their relative importance on the scale of things one is thinking about at that instant. Communication is, in the case of football, usually between one who assists and one who decides.

The first two are self explanatory. The third is where I'll tread; making a decision of this magnitude must be instantaneous unless proper procedures are followed. In America we have three things an assistant must do to refuse a goal:

If the player scoring the goal is offside at the moment a team mate touches or plays the ball the assistant raises his flag.

If there is a player offside and thought to be interfering with an opponent the assistant stands to attention and looks at the referee.

If the Laws of the Game have been infringed by the side scoring the goal the assistant stands to attention and looks at the referee.

You'll note we were not able to see the assistant. The referee was in a position where he was looking through a crowd of players and he may not have been able to see the assistant either or may not have understood the attempted communication. BUT the ball is in the net and play has stopped, a chance is there for the taking.

Here the referee had choice to decide instantly, a 50/50 chance, or continue his run and ask what the assistant saw, evidence of indecision on his part no matter what he decides. He decided.

Now the pundits will scream for video evidence. The pundits will moan that the Gold Cup is an American tournament so USA should be in the final. Me, I say if you play Football long enough things will level out, remember Germany blocking, with a defender's left hand, a sure USA goal in the waning minutes of the World Cup 2002 quarter final?

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

John, Law 11 certainly does address this. Law 11 tells us that offside is judged at the moment the ball is played by a teammate. In this instance you state the ball was clearly played by an OPPONENT so offside is not even a consideration. If you have ANY referee in your league that calls this offside, he or she is in dire need of a refresher course and an assessment asap.

Answer provided by Referee Ben Mueller

The fact that the ball touched a defender on the way to the offside positioned player does not undue the offside. Only if the defender establishes control is offside reset. Here the AR judged the player that eventually retrieved the ball to be in an offside position at the moment the ball touched his teammate. At that very moment, the attacker was judged to be closer to the goal line than the ball, 2nd last defender, and obviously on attacking half of field. Then he got involved in play by retrieving a pass from a teammate. Remember the new offside position interpretation is that the closest part of the body (other than the hands) to the goal line is what establishes the players position.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi John,
As a Canadian referee I need to seperate official from player, coach and especially as a fan!

No the goal can not count because as a decision it was a fact of play where the officiating staff decided it was an offside infringement. We always berate those who think what they saw is true and what the officials see must be wrong. The point is it COULD be wrong but since they choose not to award the goal it simply does not matter!

My good friend and colleague Ref Fleischer humored me late last night as I ranted how injust the injustice over the telephone.

The question asked by many is did the referee make the right call?
He supported a member of his team whose responsibility it was to make that judgement so kudoes for the referee! Yes it was the right call whether or not it was correct!

The referee supported the raised offside flag his AR displayed.
In fact it is likely the referee whistled the play dead even before Canada scored the goal. A whistle if heard by the USA keeper might have caused him to relax a bit yes? Especially if he noted the raised flag.

As a Canadian fan I was peeved as I thought it was a good goal. That is watching from my tv armchair where unfortunately our best work is done within our own minds!

In the sequence of play I thought the attacker who scored the goal was onside when his team mate kicked the ball down field and he used the ball's flight time to get inbehind the 2nd last opponent.
As that ball traveled in the air a Canadian, Hume I think, tried to head the ball and in my opinion missed the ball, instead it fell to the head of the American defender who did not miss and the ball was either played or deflected depending on your opinion of what constitutes such things.

The question that blazes around the world why did the AR raise his flag? Not why did the referee support him? I expect my referee to support any flag I raise if I am certain it is so! If he KNOWS something I missed he can choose to disreguard my flag but he can not ignore it.

As a world class official one could expect the AR understands LAW 11 as well as anyone on the face of the planet. It is after all what he is SPECIFICALLY trained to do.

So if the AR held that opinion it would have to be one of these!

The Canadian attacker who scored was in fact offside positioned when his team mate last touched the ball in the AR's opinion be it perceived or true and the ball that contacted the American defender was a deflection which changes nothing with regards to offside play for the Canadian opponents.

The Canadian attacker who scored was not originally offside positioned when his team mate last touched the ball but in the AR's opinion HUME managed a very slight deflection of the ball just prior to the American header. If you look close at any replay the Canadian attacker was offside positioned if indeed this slight touch by Hume percieved or true occurred!

As my esteemed colleague Ref Fleischer and my good friend Chuck obliquely points out the Esse Barharmast 100% correct call in the 98 World Cup that no one saw for several days until the one camera actually focused on that specific spot at that specific moment blazed its truth for all detractors to see

Now either of those two opinions if held by the AR are 100% correct in law whether or not we think different.

It is obvious the AR did not think the American defender played the headed ball with control /possession as that would negate any offside position by a Canadian opponent! I want to point out ALL here on this site look upon the USA header as a DEFLECTION not a controlled possession so if offside position was established the USA header changes nothing!

As a devout Canadian fan it hurts to see it end so ugly but we dug a hole 2 to zip and cannot hold the officials responsible for our poor 1st half instead be grateful for the 4 extra minutes as I thought we were only to get 3.. Yes OT would have tickled me to see it but it shows why you must bury all chances when they come and stop all opponents when you can
Cheers