Question Number: 17584

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 10/29/2007

RE: Rec Under 11

John Rochfort of San Jose, CA US asks...

1. Goalie catches ball in her hands.
2. Kicks from hands but miffs it .. touches(kicks) ball but it falls right beside her in the box.
3. Goalie kicks the ball second time(2nd touch). DOES NOT USE HANDS.

Ref gives an indirect free kick (he said because of second touch by goalie)

My Position (as Coach & Ref)
1. Goalie didn't use hands so it shouldn't be a free kick.
2. Goalie can drop the ball & dribble (take many touches) so kicking a second time after a miff is legal.

I checked the FIFA site and it says:
"Law 12 Fouls & Misconduct

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences:

1. takes more than six seconds while controlling the ball with his hands before releasing it from his possession
2. touches the ball again with his hands after it has been released from his possession and has not touched any other player
3. touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to him by a team-mate
4. touches the ball with his hands after he has received it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate. "

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi John ,
as a coach you actually looked up the laws ? Damn, go get certified at least you know where to go to find something out. ;o) lol

At the u-11 level it is likely the referee has no more experience than the players in number of games played or is old and tired and it has been a long time since recertification. A referee good or bad is a match condition and you can certainly note the effort and the level of understanding in a report send it to the appropriate people in the league so the referee can be coached, mentored and trained better.

If you look into the laws you will find your position is within the technical area and generally does not involve pointing out referee errors but tactically instructing your players.

While you are correct in your thinking that the free kick awarded was unjust do you really want to set the example to your players to argue calls you disagree wit? And is a referee who will change a decision based on your will, really one the other coach will be happy with? What if the other coach disagrees with you? Haul a law book and check to see who is right?

One of the most difficult things for coaches to understand is how intimidating it is for a referee to allow a coach to relay useful and non biased information during a match. The PROBLEM is MOST of the time the flow of information is NOT so correct and not so unbiased. Being correct might make you feel justified but so does a perceived opinion of being right (and perhaps not right at all) make one feel justified.

It is part of the agree to disagree theory that a coach is far better to use the captains to extract and relay useful information. Referees can admit to error and can change a decision known to be wrong. The AR and 4th as neutral officials hopefully provide this. Referees if approached by the captain in the pregame can request of the referee, "Sir if a situation arises in which we are confused, if time permits could we please ask for an explanation?"

A referee will respond yes or no or maybe but you offered a way to get necessary info in special circumstances. The key DO not use it for, I thought it went off the red player or he was pushing too or handball ref, these will ANNOY and as opinions of play they have no basis for protest as a misapplication of law. If the referee lets this request occur, frame it through the captain in a way that he might listen and a light might come on. Young referees are easily embarrassed, occasionally stubborn and often driven out of the officiating circle by those who think they know more than they do and express that fact constantly whether they do or not.

I also coach and I endure the same things all coaches do on occasion, a referee who is not quite up to par with the understanding, or positioning or mechanics or effort. I record and report to the league those I feel require some assistance. I try to keep my mouth shut and my team calm and focused. I will use the captains to request or elicit info if I truly think it necessary. But My comments are limited to "Hello sir/mam ", and :Thank you for the match." With a "Good job!" or "Appreciate the effort!" thrown in if deserved.
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Ref screwed the pooch John. Pure and simple. However it happens to be a match condition that must be lived with because right or wrong the referee is always right. Now if his misapplication of the Law cost the match you can protest and have the result overturned. The referee will be embarrassed and probably talked to by someone that knows the Laws better than he. If you wanted you could print this question and submit it together with your research so the league in which this "referee" works can retrain him or dispense with his services.

Kudos to you for researching the decision and thanks for trusting us to verify what you already know.

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

Another newbie mistake, understandable when you stop to think about it. The ref knew the goalkeeper couldn't touch the ball a second time - but he forgot about that little detail, WITH HER HANDS. Or he mistakenly thought the punt was a restart, where second touches of any kind are not allowed.

I see in your text that you are a referee as well. Please report this mistake to your assignor, so that the ref can get the correct call next time.

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

Not a second touch and at U11 rec probably a trifling foul that shouldn'et even be called