Question Number: 14082

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 10/9/2006

RE: IM Under 12

Patrick Trombly of Newton / Winthrop, MA USA asks...

This question is a follow up to question 13970

I am nothing short of SHOCKED by your answers to 13970.

Three reasons:

1) A yellow card marks a serious call. You state that the coach's job is to make sure the players play responsibly - but if the coach doesn't know what the player did to get a yellow card, he really can't tell the player what not to do, can he?

2) If the ref gets absolute discretion to make the call then the coaches and players deserve to know what the call is.

3) Because the ref has absolute discretion in making a call, he has a lot of power - - and that involves the potential to get out of hand. This weekend, my girls were up 7-2 and the ref started giving the other team a penalty kick every time we stole the ball from the other team. Now, we play physical (see my other questions) but we do NOT play dirty or even push the envelope - and the calls did not start coming down until we were up by 5 goals, so this really wasn't about physical play but about an inappropriate way to try to keep the game from getting out of hand score-wise, which I was already working on by pulling my better scorers out but to no avail.

What are we supposed to do when the ref makes inappropriate calls like this? Again, not a "missed" call e.g., who kicked it out of bounds, not a single judgment call, but a deliberate misuse of his authority to try to keep the game from becoming more lopsided, which is not his job to do - - and in a fashion that seemed like it was telling my girls that somehow simply outhustling their opponents was wrong?

All it did with my girls was make them angry and they spent the last 10 minutes pushing even harder until it was 11-2 and the other coach asked for the game to end.

If there's nothing I can do about this and if the refs keep it up then I am just going to come up with a set play when we're defending penalty kicks and turn them into goals. See how they like it then. What I won't do is tell my girls to abandon what they spent a week preparing to do and do something else, to their own detriment. It's wrong to penalize them for being "too good."

Refs aren't Gods. They make mistakes and that comes with the territory, and people should deal with them civilly. But they should not misuse their position to affect the outcome of the game, particularly in a manner which sends the message to a bunch of 11 year old girls that there's something dirty or unsportsmanlike about coming prepared and outhustling the other team.

Thank you

Answer provided by Referee Ben Mueller

A lot of critical comments here. I will agree with you that the referee should NEVER call a 1-sided game because of the score. When I ref, I call what I see regardless of if a team is up 10-0 or if the score is tied. I will give a PK to a team thats leading 8-0 just as I would to a team thats losing 0-1. Many things will influence what I call, but the score of the game will not. The referee, however, is NOT requiered to explain calls to coaches and players during the game. It is a big enough responsibility to control and referee the game that we are not expected to explain each and every call we make like they do in the NFL. A simple whistle and a signal will do. Regarding the explaining the yellow card, come on now. I think that a player very well knows why they are getting the card. Whether it is for reckless play or dissent, they know 95% of the time. For that 5% of the time when it my be unclear, then the referee should briefly state the reason for the card to the player.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Thank You for your comments. First time I ever heard a coach chastise a referee for causing goals to be scored by his players.

As to the unknown yellow card the Law requires a referee to caution and show the yellow card. That means explain to the player what happened and why it deserves a caution, make sure the player understands and THEN show the card so everyone else knows a caution for something was just given. That's all the Law requires.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

HI Patrick,
what is this GOD complex you are on about ? How is passing judgement on any official not partly a coach's SATAN complex?

I look over your comments and I must assume you did not really read my comments? Because if you did you draw some very poor comparisons and conclusions.

There are only 7 reasons a player can have a yellow card shown to them . As a coach it is YOUR responsibility to know them. USB is the catch all for what in the opinion of the referee meets that standard. The others are so clear that if you do not know them it is because you are not paying attention.

It is not a GOD complex ye of righteous indignation it is a persecution complex that when you provide the ammunition the defensive shell goes up.

I compare the pandering of a coaches indignation to that of a parent who says to the coach, Why is my johnny not playing more? Why is he always defence? Why must you have three practices? Why do you yell at him? Oh johnny go right up to the front so you can get the ball as the coach instructs johnny to stay.

IF the referee told your defender to move up from a 4 4 2 to a 3 5 2 or decided to switch sides with your two outside players because your coaching sucks is that something you are prepared to accept?

This concept of PK fouls is surely not a shot from 12 yards out every time you touch the ball? I doubt that is true. You likely mean free kicks awarded because of the aggressive tenancies that bother this referee. So be it. You adapt, box the players in, turn them right or left into the path of a teammate.

And if you play physical some of it will be foul, to say you ALWAYS play physically clean is simply not possible despite your best intentions as movement and timing must be 100% correct everytime. When is the last series of perfection in a match where no fouls were called?.

A referee who misuses his power to impose a sense of justice requires some evaluation by the assessors and assignors that FAIR PLAY standards are set within the boundaries of laws and the spirit of the gam not at his whim. The discretion of the referee based on the actions by the players do become blurred if a referee disregards the neutrality of the position.

There is a difference of being wrong because you made an error in judgement to be deliberately wrong is to cheat or change something fronm occuring. My concern is I have never cheated in this manner BUT have been accused of it by coaches who can not accept a perceived mistake. Can not understand that as a condition of the match you adapt to the referee as you would on a rainy pitch or a hard sundried field.

I too coach at a reasonable level and my kids would never seek to humiliate another team because of percieved referee injustice.

We might go into limited attack mode where headers or bike kicks are to be set up. Or only certain people can enter the PA. That said we could fill the net if the opposing team wants to be met with a challenge not pity. A crushing defeat is only bad if those that administer it twist the knife.

I can tell you when my player is cautioned I have a very good idea why. I could ask my captain to try and find out more or I will substitute the player to cool down and find out more if need be. I will not engage a referee in dissent or discussion or add unneeded sarcastic comments. Since I do not speak to the referee my tone of voice provides no ammunition for him to toss me despite the daggers I might be sending out in my mind

I teach the kids to respect the official position even if they hate his individual guts. I can tell you of referee decisions against my teams that make you wonder if the real GOD was having fun at my expense because I have a good understanding of the laws

When I stop play to caution or send off I tell the player exactly why the card is shown to them as one of the 7 cautionable offences and if appropriate I state reckless nature of the foul. I do not announce it over the PA . The raising of the card is to SHOW you and everyone else that this player has been cautioned. You record and report but when you think you are owed an explanation for the caution Check the match report and it will be listed.
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

Patrick, I'm confused when you say the referee started giving penalty kicks everytime you stole the ball and that you are going to start defending them in such a manner as to be able to score from them. You CANNOT defend a penalty kick, by definition. Also, I would think the other team would at least score once from the awarding of a plethora of PK's. Do youmean to say "free kicks"? This makes a lot of difference because free kicks ARE a matter of opinion by the referee. Penalty kicks may only be awarded in specific instances. If you are going to file a complaint on this referee, you will need your facts straight. referees should NEVER do anything to change the score in a match. Fouls are fouls and should be called if you're up 1-0 or 10-0.
As to your being shocked by our answers to question 13970; when a player is cautioned and shown the yellow card, she is told what she did and why she's being cautioned. The referee has no OBLIGATION to tell the coach nor does the coach have any RIGHT to be told. 99.99% of the time, a referee will gladly tell a coach this information but not one that was reacting the way he did in the question you refererence. Yelling and screaming at a referee is not going to do anyone any good. You are correct when you say we do make mistakes. Some referees make bad mistakes but there are proper ways to go about doing something to correct this. You should direct your your complaints to the referee assignor and to the Board of your local league. Request the referee be asessed. Detail specific things the referee did that you believe not to be in accordance with the Laws of the Game. Do not make comments like "this referee has it in for my team". Comments like that are going to be ignored. If you have a bad referee in your midsts I hope you do what you need to get him removed or re-educated

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