Question Number: 16543

Mechanics 9/4/2007

RE: Select High School

Mike Meyers of St Paul, MN USA asks...

Late in a 1-0 game an altercation occurs behind the play in the penalty area. The red team GK and a blue team player are cursing and pushing each other. Play is stopped and both players are sent off. The coach of the blue team claims the red GK initiated the incident by grabbing the jersey of his player while he attempted to return to the play. You have a novice AR working on that side and while going to consult with him; you can see he does not know what happened any more than you do. Nearby however is an experienced ref you have worked with before. He is in uniform, waiting for his game to start. He is holding his hand over his badge, the signal you have used between you before when the AR wishes to speak with the center.

Question: Can you consult with the other referee, as if he was a fourth official? If yes, would in make any difference if he was not in uniform?

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Mike you have a real problem here. A linesman who has no clue about what was happening in front of him needs to go back to cleaning floors at Mickey D's, he isn't any good to the referee game. So where does the input come from?

The ice gets really thin if you're seen getting outside help even if you know he's impartial. Reason? To everyone else on the planet he isn't! So there you have it, two guys dukin' it out in one's own penalty area and both have been disqualified. The first guy you don't believe is a coach UNLESS he tells you his guy started it. It gets easy from there on.

Without any information go with a direct free kick coming out. Done deal, just SELL IT!!!

What would I do? If I absolutely knew the referee waiting to start his game, I would read his lips if he offered and go with his opinion BUT no one would suspect I even looked his way. Something like that I can sell.

The rookie is going to get his name mentioned in the match report and he ain't gonna be happy with what I write...

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Nathan Lacy

I was given some sage advice many years ago - use whatever you can to make the right decision but do it DISCRETELY. This was specifically in reference to "looking at" the replays shown on the big screens in stadiums. SELLING THE CALL, as Ref Fleischer points out, is a very fundamental and important aspect of reffing. If you can gain info from the "extra referee" without anyone's knowledge and you trust their opinion then fine. HOWEVER, you had better make it look like you and your partner (the AR) made the call. I would NOT advocate the following approach but will share with you an anecdote about selling the call. I was an AR on a game with a very experienced referee. An event happened that was behind his back but he KNEW what had happened and who was at fault because of the game dynamics that existed. He came over to me and said "I want you to point to red number 5 and nod your head up and down" which I did. He immediately went over and red carded the player - and believe it or not he was right - and the game went forward in a positive manner. Again, I would NOT advocate trying this BUT it does go to show how SELLING THE CALL is essential to us as referees. Oh, and since I didn't know what happened I guess Ref Fleischer would write up the same report on me. LOL. All the best,

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

We're all newbies sometime, and the only real way to learn our craft is to get out there and do it. That doesn't excuse the mistakes we make, but it does explain them. I'll bet this rookie AR was ball-watching instead of paying attention to the players in front of him. And I'll bet he doesn't do that again after Ref Fleischer gets done with him!

I agree with my colleagues. If you can get an opinion from the waiting ref without being seen talking to him, go for it. Perhaps you can go over to talk with the AR and actually be looking over his shoulder at the other ref. When you ask, "Who started it?" the other ref can make a subtle signal.

Answer provided by Referee Michelle Maloney

Why would who started it make any difference in the punishment? If they were both pushing and cursing, then no matter who started it, one is guilty of starting it and the other of retaliation. Seems like two send-offs are correctly in order, or a different referee may have chosen to give two yellows - I wasn't there and can't judge. Perhaps the coach should be teaching his players discipline and restraint so he doesn't have to wade into the fray for his player - especially since it isn't his place to do so. If he practiced, preached and demanded the discipline and restraint, he would have kept a player.

Answer provided by Referee MrRef

Here is what US Soccer said in answer to the very same question:

You'll note that each panelist qualified his answer saying essentially the same thing as written below but if no one knew all information available to the referee would be used.

USSF answer (September 5, 2007):
As convenient as that might be, this referee is not working this game and, no matter what his credibility in all other matters, his information cannot be used here.