Question Number: 17331

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 10/15/2007

RE: Park League Adult

iain of Atlanta, GA USA asks...

We scored a perfectly good goal, but it was disallowed for offside. The ref was closest to the action, kept play going despite the linesman's flag, but once the goal was scored the ref went with the linesmans call. I asked the ref 'to use his own discretion' albeit from about 15 yards,but no insulting language was used or gestures made and was immediately shown a yellow. I replied 'is that some kind of joke ref?' again with out insult or gesture at which point he gave me a straight red. I asked him what it was for, but he would not offer an explanation. Later on when i was watching the remaining game from outside the cofines of the field an opposition player was all over the ref because he felt he had been fouled. I shouted that that player deserved a card for his actions. The ref came running over to me called me somthing I would rather not repeat here, threatened to have me arrested unless I leave the park. I insisted he expalin what I was sent off for but still no expalnation only verbal abuse towards me.

First question is: Was that a cardable offense for the yellow.
Q2: Was the ref right to show a straight red for my reply.
Q3: can the ref call for my arrest. Sounds stupid i know, but I feel like I am the victim of his bad day.

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

If the goal was disallowed for offside, I would describe it other than "perfectly good".

When you first spoke to the referee about using his discretion, that was dissent. The fact of the matter is that the referee did use his discretion, upon consultation with the assistant referee.

Then you compound your error by using offensive, insulting and abusive language. While you did not swear or curse, you did make it clear that you thought the referee was not taking his responsibilities seriously by asking if it was a joke.

Now possibly the referee makes an error, if he did not state why you were being sent off. He doesn't have to "offer an explanation", but he does have to tell you the reason for the red card. "Insulting language" would be all he had to say. If he was completely mute and told you nothing, then he was wrong.

Then later you decide to inject yourself into the game yet again, by trying to tell the referee how to deal with your opponents. Unless this was in a stadium setting and you had retired to the bleachers, you should have been "out of sight and out of sound". In other words, you should not have been near enough that you could yell at the referee again.

If he called you names, shame on him. But then once again he states that you are to leave the park. If you do not, you are guilty of tresspassing. The referee could threaten to call the police to enforce your leaving. I think about that time I'd be telling the rest of your team that I was leaving because the game was terminated.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Iain when a player is sent-off he is to take no further part in the match. What that means is go away and take no further part in the match. So as far as that match is concerned you might as well be on the moon. You decided to take further part in the match, something you are not permitted to do. For me this further part in the match would be added to my sending-off report in an effort to have the disciplinary committee extend your ban beyond what would usually be the case.

Choosing to approach you and call you names is about as wise as marrying the same woman three times because you have two houses and a really nice yacht.

The Laws insist a referee send-off and show the red card or caution and show the yellow card. In the first case the referee had it in mind you used offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gesture and showed you the red card, he should have sent you off then shown the red card. By that I mean, approach you with his book out and ask if you really meant to insult him or whether his hearing you allowing your alligator mouth to over load your humming bird brain was just a mistake on his part. Given you and him having a slight difficulty in communicating perhaps a caution might have been agreed to by all parties concerned. If you were unable to convince the referee that he misunderstood you then a sending-off for the insult was most appropriate. Once the formalities of taking your name and number, noting the time and the offence were written down the card would be shown and you should take no further part in the match OR be much nicer in your manner of speech toward the referee for the rest of the match.

Regarding you being arrested and being the victim of a bad day, he just "red carded" [again wrong order] you and you want him to listen to what you have to say? Shall we say pushing the issue is something you'd rather not get involved in -- a two house nice yacht kicd-of-thing...

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Iain, tsk tsk you really dug it deep my friend.
A referee is a match condition and while he might not be always be correct in what he does he is always right in what he decides as the neutral official in charge.
To get yourself sent off for such a minor thing means you did not adapt to the referee as a playing condition.
He has a low tolerance for dissent!
He does not enjoy it when players make him out to be a fool.
His perception and his opinion as to what was dissent, what was insulting was different than yours, guess who wins that argument?

Answer provided by Referee Steve Montanino

Truth be told Iain, I don't think I can fully believe or trust your account of the situation - the facts just don't make sense to me. The ones that do however, make me see that you have no respect for the authority of the referee, and it appears to me that he was within his rights to do what he did.

Welcome to real life - if you make the ref angry, he will punish you, do don't make him mad.

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 17360