Question Number: 17863

Character, Attitude and Control 11/11/2007

RE: Rec Under 10

David Vaughn of Vacaville, CA USA asks...

I have two questions:

1) In two previous games with the same referee, the ref refused to blow the whistle for any reason (using their hands, pushing, elbowing, etc.) In the second of the two games the physicality on the field became so rough that one of my players intentionally tackled an opposing player with the ball after being elbowed in the face and no foul being called (a football tackle, not a soccer tackle). When this happened, the referee didn't blow a foul on my player either! At the next stoppage, I pulled my offending player from the game for what I deemed unsportsmanlike conduct for him to "cool off". After the game, I tried to speak to the center referee about her actions, but she refused to speak to me. I then approached one of the sideline refs about her inaction and he agreed that things got way out of hand and that I should take it up with the league, which I did. The league said they would speak to the referee as well as the sideline judge. Well, yesterday on our last game of the year, we had this same referee. It was the same exact scenario, but there were no sideline referees at the game. The first half of the game was very physical with pushing and elbows from both teams and there wasn't one whistle blown or any warnings given. At the half my kids were complaining about being elbowed so I attempted to speak with the referee who informed me that "I can't speak to her during the game." About 15 minutes into the second half, the level of play was approaching a hockey game and one of my players was elbowed in the throat and was down on the field and she refused to blow the whistle to stop play. Myself and the mother of the affected player both ran onto the field to attend to the hurt player even though play wasn't stopped. I informed my team to leave the field at that point and told the other coach that I wasn't going to allow any of the kids to get injured from incompetence on the referees part. When I tried to approach the referee as to why I was pulling my team, she blew her whistle and called the game (which was fine by me). I have written the league regarding her behavior but haven't heard back from them on this. I also have been told that another coach complained of the same issues with this referee last year but yet she is still allowed to ref. Is there a higher authority than the local league that certifies referees? (By the way, we were winning this game so it isn't a case of sour grapes...I also had 6 of 11 parents thank me for making a statement and trying to keep the kids safe.)

2) In youth soccer (U-9 specifically), would play be stopped when a player is down on the field crying or does the ball need to be kicked out of play? I have seen it called both ways in our league but wondered if there was a "rule" regarding this? It is hard to determine if a 9 year old is seriously injured but I feel in this age group it is better to be safe than sorry. Am I wrong here?

Answer provided by Referee Michelle Maloney

Law 5 says the referee stops play, if in her opinion, a player is seriously injured and has them removed from the field. It also says the referee may allow play to continue until the ball is out of play, if in her opinion, the player is only slightly injured. This gives the referee a great deal of latitude, which most of us use very judiciously. In children's games, especially younger ages, referees tend to stop the game more often to check on "injuries", in part because at that level, safety is first, and in part, because these players are new at the game, and don't know to or can't kick the ball out. There is also the "mommy" factor. Not stopping the game tends to cause parents to run onto the field to deal with a crying child. This is not permitted, but is understandable, so the wise referee will ensure it is not needed. I hope that answered your question. Next, a bit of advice, if I may. Removing your team from the field is a huge breach of the Laws of the Game, the spirit of the game and so many other don'ts, and may result in some kind of sanction from your league. While I understand your motivation, I disagree with your reasons - please ask yourself what this teaches the players? I would also ask you to address the issue of the referee with insufficient training to be working with young ages by doing 3 things: 1) put your complaints in writing to your league assignor with a copy to the league president and to the state referee administrator, and ask for her to be assessed or retrained. 2) include a video, if you can, of this referee on the field (very important). 3) sign up for a referee course - you've recognized the problem, become part of the solution, or ask a few parents to do so. There are NEVER enough referees, so assignors sometimes have to use folks they do not want to use because otherwise, there is no game. Sometimes that's the best choice, but boy, is it ever hard to do. Work with your league and assignor to see that there are not too many games in any one time slot, so the assignor can find and use the better referees more efficiently, and encourage the league to pay senior refs to come out and assist the newer referees to become more proficient. It takes several years to become a decent referee - we don't unwrap them off the shelf ready to go.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Ref Maloney writes about what should happen, what referees may do and what you can do. What she can't have is experience with these games, specifically in Vacaville.

I have been a resident of Vacaville since 1986. I have refereed matches here since that time. I have found it normal to have screaming parents try to influence the referee when he intervenes on behalf of fair play. I am a referee instructor and have taught 4-500 referees in Vacaville in the last 15 years yet there is a critical shortage of referees in the city. This I attribute to youth referees not wanting to continue past their first few matches and not re-registering their license.

I have attempted, as an assessor, to help referees in the city. Many are not interested in anything beyond hearing how good they are and collecting their pay. Two weeks ago I asked a referee team if they wanted feedback on their performance; the referee said he wasn't interested. I constantly see referees wandering about with their shirts hanging out, stockings around their ankles and looking as if they spent the night in the dumpster. I bring this up to the league president and no action is taken.

I would hope the actions suggested by Ref Maloney would have some effect but history indicates it is pointless to complain. When this question arrived I sent it on to the referee coordinator to see if he wanted to take any action or desired to comment to you through this forum, I await his answer.

Notifying the assignor is a noble thing especially if the assignor were licensed by USSF. Sadly the assignor[s] in Vacaville are not licensed by the Federation. I'm sure they take their fair share of criticism regarding referee performance and it is understood, based on what I see at matches.

Ref Maloney suggests the league have senior referees come out and assist the new guys. Funny that. I have been trying to get the league to do that for years. I even went as far as to accept a position to assist the referee coordinator and to provide instruction periods for referees. Well that went well for one period of instruction then disgruntled parents started to show up and complain about how referees perform so we couldn't accomplish the instruction intended. There are two referee instructors in town, both are[were] rated in the top 1% of referees in the nation. I am one and the other is a current grade 05 US Soccer referee. We know what is happening and have offered our services to the club. No takers.

As a result of all this I offer this statement: There is NO training in Vacaville beyond initial qualification as a referee. There is no incentive for a referee to advance his or her license because matches are not really assigned referees volunteer for them by signing a list of matches. If there were training available then the referees would have to want to attend that training, so far they are not clamoring to have training. Of late quite a number of referees from the city have been traveling to Sacramento to attend training offered by the Central California Soccer Referees Association [www.ccsra.net]. They are learning their trade. They are!

Of the 2800 referees in this district two of the four chosen to officiate the high school finals were from Vacaville. I was instrumental in the training of those referees beyond their initial qualification BUT is was on my own and not through the local club. Opportunities exist for referees in this area to advance their learning and skills BUT they are not yet available through the local youth club.

I fully understand your dismay regarding the performance of the referee on your match. It is sad to say without that referee there would be no match but it is also true with the referee there was no match. One would hope this will change for the better. After all it has been needing change for 20 years and one can still hope.

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Ben Mueller

Wow. And this is only U9. Let me say a couple of things here. First off..to address the initial question. If the referee believes that a player is slightly injured, referee will allow play to continue until the next stoppage. If the referee perceives the injury to be severe, then play stops immediately and the injury is dealt with. It sounds to me as if the injury you describe was severe especially at U9. Your referee however may have had a differing opinion. This referee lacked the ability to call fouls and control the game. This is a serious deficit on the referees part and one that must be dealt with. You did speak to the league about it and apparently nothing was done. Could you tactfully approach the assignor?

Referee Maloney brings up a strong point when she mentions that you sign up for a referee course. I would bet dollars to donuts that this lady was out on the field due to a shortage of referees. She probably was one of the few referees available especially if she did not have assistant referees to work with. Also, usually referees do not like to be talked to during the game about the game. It is not considered acceptable for a coach to talk to a referee during the game or at half time. Sorry that you had to experience this, but hopefully your actions will better the situation.

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 18061