Question Number: 17877

Mechanics 11/12/2007

RE: AYSO Under 15

ArtK of Culver City, CA USA asks...

This issue came up on another discussion list and I volunteered to get the opinion of this board.

BU10 AYSO regional tournament match. No info about whether it was solo, with club linesmen or with neutral ARs. Late in the match, Blue scores a goal -- CR indicates the goal and records it. For whatever reason, he then allows Red to pull the ball from the net and restart with what appears to be a GK (in other words, not a KO!)

After the match, there is some(?) discussion of this, with the Red coach claiming that there was no goal, because there was no KO, and Blue claiming that there was a goal -- the goal was signaled and recorded. Where it gets even worse is when another referee steps in and "instructs" the CR to disallow the goal.

My contention is that the goal stands, despite (or because of) the bad restart. Both the CR and the "other" ref need to reread Law 5, especially "Decisions of the Referee" and IFAB Decision 3. Am I right there?

In some subsequent discussion on the list, several people maintained that any goal scored after the improper restart wouldn't count, because the game was "unofficial" from the bad restart on. I can't find anything in law to support this.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Well Art this one is almost different. What can we offer is the referee's opinions regarding facts connected with play are final. Those opinions are supposed to be based on his own information or from match officials assigned to that match.

Right, there is another thing we can say -- a referee can reverse any decision he has taken unless play has been restarted. The signalling of a goal and it being recorded is a decision that may be reversed based on new information from the match referees as mentioned before. The recorded information need only be stricken from his record and the appropriate restart of play indicated. Once the referee allows play to restart facts connected with whether or not a goal has been scored are final, cast in concrete, etched in stone, on the coconut wireless and otherwise unalterable. Please note a goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes completely over the goal line under the cross bar and between the goal posts provided the Laws of the Game have not been infringed by the team scoring the goal. This proviso will deny a supposed goal seen by spectators! Should the referee deny a goal because the Laws of the Game were infringed one correct restart of play will look just like a goal kick to spectators.

International FA Board Decision 3 of Law 5 tells us the referee's word on whether or not a goal is scored is final and his notations regarding the result of the match are final. It says, in effect, when the referee signs the match report the score is as indicated on the report. This is true even if the referee has made an error in the reporting of the score.

Where this referee made his error was in talking to a person who was not part of the referee crew and introducing the possibility the discussion could have had bearing on the decision he took. It is a referee screw up of magnificent proportions.

As referee you must know if the match referee doesn't have the team on which a supposed goal has been scored to restart with a kick-off something is amiss. Further you must know restarting play with something looking like a goal kick indicates a supposed goal may not have, in truth, happened -- an example of this might be a shot on goals that left the field of play and immediately passed through a hole in the side netting coming to rest in the back of the net. This looks exactly like a goal, especially when viewed from distance.

Note, I was not there. I offer only what could have happened based on many years [50+] with The Game and seeing just about everything happen once or twice. During that time I have seen the ball enter the side netting and restarted play with a goal kick, much to the chagrin of spectators knowing they had just seen a goal scored by their side.

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Michelle Maloney

Oh, for heaven's sake! The original goal definitely counts, as it was scored in the normal way - after all if the goal had been scored in the last second of time before the final whistle, it still would have counted, even though there was no restart. The fact that the restart apparently didn't match up the way it should only means either it should be retaken correctly, assuming somebody (read referee - perhaps from the shouting of the fans) notices quickly before the game is restarted from the goal scored, or the referee simply needs to record this fact in his game report and let the authorities decide what to do. I think the "other referee" needs to perhaps go for retraining, and the Red coach was hoping for/angling for a miracle. I do hope the actual referee didn't do the stupid thing and disallow the goal. That would be protestable.

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

This is a weird one. I agree with my colleagues, that allowing a mistaken restart to be taken must not be compounded by mistakenly taking away a valid goal. However as Ref Fleischer notes, there may be many things that would have caused an apparent goal to not be counted.

It appears from your description that the ref changed a decision based on input from outside sources, including the "other ref". "Other ref" should be respectfully told to keep his nose out of it. He's not the referee on that game, and should not be giving instructions to the ref while the game is going on.

This is little kid rec soccer. Regional tournament or no, after today no one will care who won or lost. Now we need to get the referees straightened out. I know AYSO is refereed by volunteers who were trained by volunteers, but most of them I presume are like refs anywhere - they want to get things right. Please help them to do so by reporting the incident to the powers that be, those that train the trainers.

Answer provided by Referee Steve Montanino

This whole situation is a mess.

Certainly 2 things are for sure. A goal scored is a decision that can be changed before the game is restarted. AND The proper restart from a goal is a kick-off.

If the referee thought the goal was good, he should allow it. If the referee then allows an improper restart after the goal the match is protestable, but he should not disallow a good goal, though if it wasn't good then he should change his mind and not allow it.

There are some more questions that I have about this scenario, but I don't think they're going to get answered, so I'll defer to the comments of my collegues.

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 17967