Question Number: 19292

Law 15 - Throw In 6/6/2008

RE: Competative Under 12

Al Sinopoli of Covington, LA USA asks...

Last U11 Girls State championship preliminary round game. Black team has a chance with a win and tie breaker to go to the semi-finals. White team is out no matter what.

White team continually tries to throw the ball in from about 10-20 feet from the spot the ball goes out (field is 80 x 50). The reason this is happening is that the black team sets-up to defend against the throw-in at about the range of the thrower, so the white teammates of the thrower move in behind. They end up too far away, so the thrower keeps moving up to make up for this. I whistled or verbally told the thrower to move back atleast 6-7 times. I let a bunch of closer ones go. Only happened once all game to black.

Usually when I see this happen, after about one or two corrections it stops. However after about the 7th one, the coach of the white team tells me in a very aggravated voice to stop slowing up the game and to let them play. I tell him to worry about coaching his team to take throw-ins at the right place and I'll stick to reffing. The next time the same thing happens, and I correct it, he bellows again - I give him a "shush" and the remainder of the game goes off fine. They loose 4-1.

Here's what happens - one of our assessors happens to be on the next field and finishes his game about 2 minutes before mine ends. He strolls over and the coach of the white team gives him an earful about how the girls are "2 feet away" from the spot and I keep slowing up the game to correct them. The funny thing is, this is the first time I recall being told that I was being too strict by a coach. The coach also indicates to me after the game that the girls really weren't trying to "pull a fast one", and I commented that especially in a State tournament in the premiere league, I can't let them push up too far on these short fields to gain an advantage like this to be fair to the other team who is not having this problem.

Well the assessor sits down with me after the game and he hears my side of the story. Frankly, it almost sounded as if he took the coaches word over mine - that these corrections for being well beyond the 1-yard zone area were probably not important to the outcome of the game, so they could have been overlooked as trivial at this age. I somewhat begged to differ, as I saw it as poor coaching (I even heard the thrower tell her own players to move closer) but I was very cordial about the thing to him (Law 18 - don't piss-off your local assessor), even though I disagreed.

So I guess my question is given this scenario - is there something in your opinions that I should consider further/do differently next time that I may be missing?

Thanks.

P.S. - The black team ended up on the short end of the tie-breaker.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Al, try this in a Saturday match first chance you get. First throw-in point to where the ball left the field and say "Please throw it from where it went out". Do this whether or not they are at the proper spot. Second throw-in point and say "Please throw it from where it went out". Third throw-in point and say "Please throw it from where it went out". Then trust them to get it right on all future restarts of that nature.

If they throw from any other point on the fourth or subsequent throw-in whistle, shrug your shoulders, look all "stink-eye" and say "We've talked about where to throw the ball from three times, haven't we?" Point for a throw-in in the opposite direction. I'll bet even the densest player and coach will kind-of understand you. After that again trust them to get it right until what happens in a U-11 Girls State Championship Preliminary match happens. At that point whistle, shrug again, look "screw-face" and point the other way. I'll bet the "Let's muck about with the throw-ins" stops forthwith...

Last suggestion; coaches are allowed to do three things: be in the technical area; give tactical instructions to their players; behave. The coach gave tactical instructions to you and you let him stay in the technical area and be there when the assessor ambled by and offered him an ear to carp in. I wonder if that would have been the case if he was in the parking lot picking his nose?

Regards,

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Al,
An improperly taken throw in is a throw in for the opposition. The ball must be thrown-in at the point in which it left the field while a yard or two is considered the ok up to 5 yards could be deemed trifling deep in the defending area certainly less as we advance into the attacking area where you point to the spot set the standard early as suggested by my colleague Ref Fleischer award the throw-in to the opposing team and watch how quickly they look to where you point for the throw-in the next time. What did the assessor have to say about the coach finding time to convey this tidbit? Was the coach reasonable in behavior? Was he within his technical area? The assessor is supposed to be assessing you and he talking things over with coaches as he watches?? If the assessor uses his position to try and intimidate you report this to the national association. A good assessor will lead you to the right conclusions by having you reiterate the match events not side with coaches to embarrass you. Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

A U11 team is playing for a state championship? Whatever for?

If the players clearly have no idea of where the ball went out (because it was miles high in the air, or because it rolled halfway down the sideline after going out) I'll point to a general position and if they're somewhere near that spot everything's fine and play continues on.

If they go to the correct spot, but then take a 5, 10, or 15-yard run down the sideline to gain distance on the throw, I'll stop it and have them do the throw from the correct position. It's best to do this before the throw is taken, if possible, but even if the throw goes off my decision was made before play was restarted, so I can bring it back. My meter for correct position changes as the situation changes - deep in the defending end even a dozen yards doesn't make much of a difference. Elsewhere it could have a tactical purpose, so we need to be closer to the actual spot where the ball went out.

I haven't had to resort to this, but if they insist on always taking throws from an obviously wrong position, the throw-in will go to the opponents. The requirements for a throw as listed in the Laws have not been met, so it's no different than if they had jumped while throwing or the ball wasn't delivered from behind and over the head. After a foul throw, the opponents get the ball.

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

AFter you've told them 2-3 times. simply blow your whistle and award a throw to the other team. If the throw is in the attacking have, 15-20 feet as you suggest certainly is NOT trifling at U11. While it's a good idea not to piss off a local assessor, that doesn't mean he was correct. Incidently, when you award a throw to the opponents, you will likely be sending this coach to the parking lot as he's certain to go ballistic.