Question Number: 19621

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 7/18/2008

RE: IM Under 14

Pat T of Newton, MA USA asks...

This question is a follow up to question 19614

I seem to be getting different answers here - from no obligation to get out of the way as long as the defender has room to get around you to 'no picks, not no way, not no how.'

The rule doesn't say no picks, not no way, not no how, it says you can't impede the progress of an opponent - I'm trying to see if it's possible to commit that foul by not moving.

Yes, the offense has a set plan, there's space, it's easier to use it if there's an obstacle between the nearest defender and the space, that the defender would have to run around to get to the space, giving the team with the ball a few more seconds to use the space, whether to shoot or whatever.

The defense doesn't know that that's the plan. The pick-er doesn't line up directly on top of the defender - 3-4 feet away but in the path between the defender and the space. Then AFTER he's there, the ballcarrier changes direction, passes or dribbles through the space.

The defender doesn't progress, or decide to progress, to the open space until the ballcarrier starts moving in that direction - the pick-er is already in place well before that happens.

The soccer field is much bigger than a basketball court, and the spaces are much bigger - the pick-er doesn't have to set a pick inches from the defender for it to work. 3-4 feet away and on the imaginary line between the defender and the passing lane or the spot from which the ballcarrier wants to shoot or pass will do the job.

Should have been clear - I've had players do this in games and impeding has never been called. This came up in a pick-up game I was playing in, when I recognized that I was between the defender and a good passing lane and stopped, and then my teammate used the passing lane, and the defender ran into me - - took 2-3 steps before doing so, it wasn't at all inviting the contact. This was in a pick-up game - we don't have set plays there. But I did stop so as to make sure the space would stay open for a few more seconds than it otherwise would.

Since the question was raised, I wanted to make sure that this tactic wasn't illegal when applied by the group.

The second answer seems to suggest that as long as the pick-er isn't so close to the defender as to invite contact, as long as there is a usable path around the pick-er, then the fact that that path around the pick-er eats up 1-2 seconds, thus enabling the ballcarrier to use the space, doesn't create an obligation to vacate the path - i.e., there is no 'foul by omission.'

The first answer seems to say that the rule means you can't employ any strategy involving using a teammate to take up space. But it does reference 'basketball picks' - - - in basketball there are a few ways to run it - - you set the pick right next to the defender so that you're really inviting contact, or you can stop at a point behind which is a good shooting spot, so that the teammate can dribble behind you and shoot over you. You can also do that to make sure a passing lane stays open long enough to complete the pass. I'm not sure if the first answer meant all three of those examples or just the first - - I've used the last two in soccer without fouls being called. But I do want to make sure that this is right.

Does the fact that the pick-er, because he knows what his teammate is likely to do, knows that he's blocking the path the defender will likely choose to take, make any difference? The text of the rule doesn't say anything about that.

There's a difference between the American approach to sports and the rest of the world's, true enough - to some others, if the game is 'about' finesse, then everyone's supposed to improve their dribbling skills and if the other team has better footskills, you don't change your approach; to us, if the other team has the finesse players, the speed, whatever, you try to neutralize that advantage by means that don't violate the rules, for the same reason Leonidas chose the hot gates over an open and flat battlefield - thus we need to understand what the rule allows and disallows so we know what to use and what not to use.

I don't want to violate a rule - or abandon a legal tactic that works, even if some people who like 'the finesse game' don't aethetically appreciate the results.

Can you plant yourself in a spot that isn't up against the defender, and isn't in the path in which the defender is moving or has started to move, but that, because you're running a more or less set play, you know is where the defender will likely choose to run 3-4 seconds later?

If you're stationary and are already in beteen the defender and the passing lane before the pass is made, before the defender decides to move to that lane, then does the 'impeding the progress' rule obligate you to move out of the defender's way to give him a better chance at intercepting a pass?

Haven't seen this called in any game I've coached or watched but since the question was raised, and since, if this is legal, I'll use it in the future, I just wanted to know.

Thanks

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

Go ahead and do what ever you want coach, it is your team, your decision and your reputation at stake not mine. If I am on one of your matches and I see this sort of thing I'll probably recognise for what it is, impeding the progress of an opponent. If I see it is a coached thing the coach is bringing The Game into disrepute and the coach will be expelled from the technical area. Again do as you wish. Enjoy.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

You get different answers to a question which has ever changing dynamics. You can dribble the ball close to a teammate as in a crossover where if a defender is following you he cannot run into your teammate anymore than your teammate can run into him.

The ball MUST be in playable distance but the player must also make a reasonable play for the ball. If the static position was held long ago and far away to force a run at angle it is generally a very poor technique to remain static in a fluid game . Just as in offside a player without the ball cannot unfairly prevent the opponent from being able to get to the ball.

You are not obligated to get out of the way if you are playing the ball.
Picks generally do not PLAY the ball they block the opponent.
The laws say you cannot impede an opponent!
If the ball is not within playing distance and you set yourself up into the path of a pursuing opponent as he is concentrating on running after your team mate you are impeding, it is better to get at angle for a pass.
What will be called is what the referee sees!
A player in a stationary spot gets run over may well be a foul on the runner for not watching where he was going as a charging foul . A player who steps into the oncoming path of an opponent has held or pushed the opponent if contact or if he has to evade has impeded.

You can gather from the substance of the answers no contact is permitted unless the ball is being challenged!

We all screen each other on free kicks and block the line of sight by running into passing lanes or taking away space that is the game of what we teach on off the ball tactics. If it is judged unfair as an impeding action the referee will make that determination

While there are no flying V wedges in soccer, just remember each referee is a match condition whatever the referee allows then go ahead and use whatever tactic works. Impeding an INDFK foul could become a DFK foul if contact!.
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

I have had a hard time following your previous X Y and Zs and this question also. If you are asking, 'Does a player have a right to occupy a space on the field?' the answer would be yes as long as he didn't move and place himself so as to impede the progress of an opponent. You are going to great written lengths to try to describe to us something that we will all recognize when we see it. If your players are setting themselves up far enough away from the ball so as to be potential obstacles to an opponent, and they remain stationary, I fail to see how they have committed an infraction. I also fail to see how it will do any good for your attack. If I understand what you are trying to do, in order for your placements to be effective, they almost have to be done in a manner to impede the progress of an opponent. For example, if you have 2 of your players standing 5-10 yards away from the ball and any opponent, the opponents will be able to run around them and you'd gain little in the way of an attack. In order for them to actually do something advantageous to your attack, I think they'd have to do it in such a manner as to impede the progress of an opponent. Of course, if they are so close to the opponent so as to contact them, this would be holding, a DFK foul.

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 19629