Question Number: 20211

Mechanics 10/10/2008

RE: Adult

Mike of atlanta, ga usa asks...

This question is a follow up to question 20200

I am sorry, but I think common sense has to apply here. Just because you still have a chance to go to goal doesn't mean that a foul hasn't decreased that chance dramatically. You can't reward infringements of the law. As to the dissent your right, I shouldn't have said anything in the game, but as you know we are all human and playing a game. I was respectful, but wrong the same. As far as the 'play the whistle' comments, I don't understand how that applies to my question. Just because he didn't blow the whistle doesn't mean he couldn't have made a wrong decision. I hope everyone can remember that the only reason refs are at a game is to make sure everyone is safe and plays by the laws. We shouldn't take an active role in effecting the outcome of games. If someone commits a foul against a team for strategic advantage, how can you not allow the other team the best chance to regain that advantage. It isn't the refs decision to decide what that team thinks is their best chance at scoring. Once the team has committed a foul, they should understand at the time the result could be a free kick from that place. If they are still willing to commit the foul, why should the other team not receive that call? Because a ball happens to deflect to a teammate with 2 defenders and a goalie to beat? What if that team has no subs and wants that 20 seconds to catch their breathe? I am sure all of yall are far wiser than I, especially when it comes to reffing soccer. I respect your comments, but I guess if we all agreed all the time, nothing would progress or change. Thanks for taking time to respond to my previous question.

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

In the previous question (20200) you didn't say whether or not the ref indicated advantage. He may not have been calling a foul at all! This may or may not have been a mistake - we weren't there, so we don't know.

The problem is that if the ref did make a mistake, either in evaluating a foul or evaluating advantage, you compounded it to your disadvantage by ceasing play. 'Play to the whistle!' - I'm sure as a referee you've had cause to say that from time to time. Don't assume what the referee will do.

And as a referee, if you feel this ref was incompetent, you know the proper channels to go through to report him for evaluation by his peers and superiors.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Common sense is not always as common as you might wish

Advantage is more than just allowing play to continue.
If that is your point, consider it made.

However, reading the play and anticipating what might occur is a learned process as much as it is on occasion obvious or not. If you read my last response you know I already mentioned this when a referee will unwisely, perhaps, think there was an advantage when it was not.

The key for you as a player is do not stop playing unless the referee has whistled play over. I know you think because YOU gave up on the play the referee should have recognized that you preferred a free kick. Perhaps another referee might see the body language and pick up on it, perhaps not. Yet if he saw a great chance for a shot notwithstanding two opponents in the mix he may have wanted you to go ahead and try first before awarding the foul and became irritated that you stopped rightly or wrongly felt advantage was there but you yourself squandered it by failing to continue

You do not say if play was stopped? Or if you were cautioned and an INDFK awarded out. We have no idea if the foul was even recognized by the referee or whether he even applied advantage at all. Perhaps he unwisely let play unfold perhaps he felt you unwisely stopped playing.
Speculation as to motive and knowledge is hard when the one we contemplate is not here!

ADVANTAGE takes 2 to 4 seconds for a referee to engage whether it has occurred or not AFTER he has recognized the foul. This allows him time to reconsider bring the foul back to the point of the infraction based on HIS OPINION of what transpires.

You had a shooting opportunity that was not taken because you wanted the DFK. What you seem not to grasp is you could have still shot and perhaps scored.
Pretty good advantage? YES?

Or been blocked and missed and still received the FK.
THAT is correct, you could still have gotten off a shot missed and still been compensated with the original FK DEPENDING on the opportunity the referee felt was there. It depends on the referee's decision whether there was advantage criteria sufficiently met to compensate for not awarding the foul.

You say it is not the referee's job to do this? Of course it is it is his DUTY to ensure that fouled team receives every advantage to be compensated. If the advantage occurs as in a goal scored, that was why the opposition tried to foul you in the first place to prevent that shot on goal. The referee job is to try and make sure that their attempt failed by recognizing you COULD still succeed. And giving you opportunity to TRY! It continues by allowing you to restart quickly if the whistle does sound for the foul.

I mentioned how one might indicate advantage applied. The first you actually say the word, 'ADVANTAGE!' and sweep the arms in a forward motion this indicates yes I saw the foul, however, the opportunity to attack or score is still there please continue, no need to retaliate . When we SEE the advantage as being realized we add 'PLAY ON!' and drop the arm sweep this is where you as the player could be upset if you disagree that he advantage of the FK is not as good as the advantage the referee felt was sufficient. If there was misconduct in the foul it is also prudent to indicate who Say '#4 blue you are in the book!' loud enoght to be heard by your AR to help identify the culprit when play is finally stopped and again calm possible retaliation.

Another advantage is a delayed whistle where the referee awaits an immediate outcome. This generally occurs in the penalty area where a too quick whistle might take away a goal. We call this swallowing the whistle for a second or two.

I also know that as a mechanic some associations only say, advantage arm sweep and play on! After the advantage is fully realized rather than indicate it is being considered.

Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Michelle Maloney

It seems perhaps the purpose of advantage has been missed? A referee will apply advantage when it is to the BENEFIT of the attacking team. It isn't a penalty of any sort. And an advantage not realized can revert back to the offense which generated the advantage, giving the attack a free kick.

Some referees are better at reading whether teams will know what to do with an advantage call than others. It is a matter of experience and observational powers. If the referee in your case truly gave an advantage, then perhaps he gave your team too much credit.

The suggestion that a referee should wait to let a team decide whether an advantage is desired has a couple of logistical problems:

1) advantage calls are a question of seconds in time - there is NO time to wait on an attacking team to give a signal that they do or do not want advantage.

2) to whom should the referee look to determine if an advantage is desired? The captain? What if he is nowhere near the play? The guys involved in the play? Doubtful, as they are normally focused on either playing through or on what they need to do next.

Don't forget, if an advantage given is not realized the referee always has the power, within reason, to call the original foul.

The less skilled the teams are, the less advantage should enter into the equation, because they do not have the skill to do something with it. The referee in this situation should just give the kick and any accompanying cards for misconduct.

Just an aside, even if a callable offense occurred does not mean the referee must call it. If a referee called everything that met the criteria for an offense in a game, there would never be any flow or excitement or development. Teams expect to play through a certain degree of foul play, and they expect the referee to be able to read what is needed by the teams in a game. It can be different for each team in a game, which compounds the work for the referee, but hey, that's why we get paid the big bucks right?

The best advice as a player, even a player/referee, or maybe especially a player/referee, is to play the whistle. Your professional judgment should be left in your referee bag when you step on the field as a player, and under no circumstances should you be 'sharing' it with the referee on your game. Bad karma.

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

I'm sorry but you're simply wrong. You STOPPED playing anticipating a whistle. That's just stupid and you know this as you've been around awhile. And it most certainly IS up to the REFEREE not you as to what constitutes advantage. You can't have players yelling 'advantage' that makes no sense but you seem to allude to wanting to be able to do this. You had your player hat on not your referee hat and thusly were biased in your comments. The referee DOES use common sense when considering advantage. Advantage is all about common sense and is something we as soccer referees get to use that no other sport has. In other sports every foul is called regardless of any common sense