Question Number: 22638

Kicks From The Penalty mark 12/13/2009

RE: amatuer Adult

matthew knowden of kent, london england asks...

we have just 'lost' a penalty shootout after the deciding penalty hit the post came back out hit our goalkeeper on the back and rolled back in!!! i thought that in a penalty shootout once the ball has ceased to go forward it was the end of the penalty. am i right??? because if thats the case whats to stop you banging in a rebound!!! that ref was wrong im sure of it!!

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

NO you are incorrect.
Your disbelief while understandable is based only on myth.
The Pk as you described was in fact a legal goal in the shoot out!

Your idea that the PK kicker could replay the ball in a shoot out is not possible as no one can participate. It is a one shot deal.

The laws of the game infer a GOAL maybe scored if at the taking of a PK the ball rebounds off the posts, crossbar or keeper in any combination thereof and through the momentum imparted by the original PK kick travels between the posts under the crossbar and completely over the goal line.
On a Pk shoot out the PK is over only
if the referee has publically signaled it so,
If the ball is stationary
If the ball has completely gone out of play into touch or
If the ball was completely controlled and possessed by the keeper rendering its momentum and force to zero
As a coach I teach the keeper to pursue and stop the ball at every opportunity so backspin, wind or a rebound does not achieve the PK kickers purpose,.
As mentioned **IF** the referee can plainly see when a rebound has passed beyond any realistic hope of rebounding as in say hitting the wood work and headed out towards the middle of the field past the keeper so it cannot rebound in off him or any possible backspin that could reverse the direction of the ball has showed itself, then he could whistle play dead.

I offer you this video link

http://www.lemoynedolphins.com/sports/msoc/2009/NEWS/20091122

see our question #22601

and a USSF answer that followed

USSF Quote
Question:
You have probably seen the NCAA game that ended with KFTM, where a shot was saved by the GK and rebounded high in the air out near the 12 yard line and landed with backspin. The ball slowly rolled back into the goal as it was ignored by the GK. Neither the CR nor AR initially realized the goal should count, but the opposing GK (teammate of the shooter) vociferously pointed it out to the AR, and eventually the goal counted.
After hearing a lot of comments from referees on what they would do if this happened in a USSF game, I'd appreciate your comments. Some of these experienced referees have stated they would not count the goal (despite what seems to me to be clear in the Laws), stating things such as:
- "If there ever was a time when a referee should declare a penalty kick to be over before it technically must be declared over, this would be that time. Neither the goalkeeper nor the kicker entertained the possibility that a goal might still be scored."
- "If this happened in most of our games, I suspect very few of us would award a goal. And I don't think we SHOULD. . . If I'm the referee and a ball bounces off the crossbar and is 10 yards away from the goal line, in my opinion the kick has been completed."
- "Besides being correct in what I feel is the spirit of the game or common sense, I believe a no-goal ruling also is correct by the letter of the law, as clarified by the ATR."
- "That is very easy to defend: It is not a misapplication of the LOTG. It is a fact of play and the referee's decision reigns supreme."
I will go out on a limb and say that goal/no goal decisions are always in the category of "facts of play" (not protestable) and never "misapplications."
- "You may want to re-read the relevant portion of the ATR again. The first time I read it, I missed the part about the ball needing to be in contact with post/bar/GK/ground AND still moving. Those criteria were NOT met on this particular kick. At least, at one point they were not and it seems completely valid for a referee to rule that the kick was completed ? way before it came 10 yards back toward the goal line and crossed the line."
- "Lets go directly to Law 5: The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play, including whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final. That is about as explicit as you can get. If the referee says it's a goal then it's a goal. If the referee says it's not a goal then it's not a goal. The decision is final. That means it cannot be protested."
- ? - ? -
Based on the above statements by experienced referees, here are my questions, assuming this was a USSF game:
1. Under FIFA/USSF rules, should this goal count?
2. Assume the goal was not allowed and there was a protest.
Assuming the CR and AR accurately state that the ball spun back over the goal line but say that they believe the kick was over because it rebounded so far from the goal, would this be considered a misapplication of the LOTG (and thus protestable) or a factual situation that cannot be protested?
Thanks for your help. I think a lot of referees could use it in this situation.
USSF answer (December 8, 2009):
The first paragraph of Advice 14.13 is pretty clear; it also follows word for word the instructions from FIFA on when the kick has been completed. However, we might suggest that skeptics use their common sense and read the phrase "any combination of the ground, crossbar, goalposts, and goalkeeper, a goal can still be scored" to mean in sequence or combination of those things. If the ball remains in motion after it has rebounded or deflected from any of those things and remains in the field, it is still in play. A referee would not stop play for such a thing during the game and there is no reason to stop it during penalty kicks or kicks from the penalty mark.
Answers: 1. Score the goal. 2. That situation would be counter to the Laws and tradition.
14.13 WHEN IS THE PENALTY KICK COMPLETED?
The penalty kick or kick from the penalty mark is completed only when the referee declares it so, and the referee should not declare the kick to be completed if there is any possibility that the ball is still in play. In other words: So long as the ball is in motion and contacting any combination of the ground, crossbar, goalposts, and goalkeeper, a goal can still be scored.
//rest deleted as non-pertinent//
End quote

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Matthew
A detailed correct answer from Referee Dawson. The penalty is completed when the referee say so and that happens when the ball loses the momentum imparted to it by the kick, a goal is scored, its goes wide or comes back into play with no hope of the ball crossing over the goal line.
In 1986 a French player did just this in a penalty shoot out in a WC game between Brazil and France. The ball hit the crossbar and the ball came back out and hit the Brazilian goalkeeper and went into the goal. The Referee allowed the goal to count and France went on to win 4-3 on penalties.
There was a lot of controversy about the French penalty kick at the time due to an ambiguity in the law on when a penalty was completed. The Scottish Football Association, as a member of IFAB, sought clarification and it was agreed at the time that the referee's decision was correct and the wording changed to remove the ambiguity.
In the great rewrite of the Laws of the Game in 97/98 all that was all expunged and the current wording which continues to reflects that original 1986 decision is

' When a penalty kick is taken during the normal course of play, or time has been extended at half-time or full time to allow a penalty kick to be taken or retaken, a goal is awarded if, before passing between the goalposts and under the crossbar:
the ball touches either or both of the goalposts and/or the crossbar and/or the goalkeeper
The referee decides when a penalty kick has been completed'

If the ball comes back out it cannot be played a second time by the penalty kicker as the law does not allow that in KFTPM or where the match time has been extended to allow a penalty kick.

Also I sincerely hope that the referee was not given any grief about making the correct decision in the Kicks from the Penalty Mark.

Answer provided by Referee Dennis Wickham

The kicker only gets to kick the ball and watch what happens. He cannot touch it again. But, as Ref Dawson and McHugh note, the ball may deflect off the keeper into the goal.

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

Ahh Coach Knowden, it's somewhat nice to see that there are those of you across the pond that are just as incorrect as many of our coaches over here when it comes ti kicks from the penalty mark. The referee was correct. The kick is NOT over when the ball ceases to move towards the goal. The kick is over when the referee says it is and as long as the ball is still moving the referee should not signal that the kick is over. The kicker cannot take a second kick regardless but if the ball is still moving the keeper best pay attention and do whatever he/she can to stop it