Question Number: 25165

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct 7/3/2011

RE: Intermediate Under 12

Phil of Tarzana, CA United States asks...

This question is a follow up to question 25113

This is sort of a general follow-up question to.

By way of background, this will be only my 3rd year as a ref & my first year doing U12 (& possibly some U14) with AYSO. I'm also a parent, whose daughter will be playing 10 years, as she turns 15.

I'm torn between the advice that referee Dennis Wickham gives 'A good referee notes in the first five minutes the respective age, skill, playing styles, and demeanor of the players and adjusts the tempo of the match to approximate what the players will accept as 'fun.' ' & the advice (that I've read in answers to other questions) to set the tone early in the game.

Let me be more specific. In my daughter's games, I've seen numerous fouls (at least in my opinion) such as pushing with arms (even elbows) & being hit from the side that are not called. My daughter even told me during a break in one game that # so-&-so was elbowing her in the back. I told her to tell the ref, so that he would be aware. What happens, is that both sides start doing this.

When I've talked to the more experienced refs about this, they've given answers such as 'if the girls tolerate it, we should too'. But I've heard the girls complain during quarter & 1/2 time breaks about the fouls that aren't being called. As a result, the coaches usually respond by telling the girls to play more aggressive or to push back.

(In fact, in one game, it got so bad that one of the fathers told his daughter not to tolerate it any more. The next time she was fouled by the same person, she turned & slugged her. Of course, she was red carded (both were) & the 2 fathers almost came to blows. The game was abandoned.)

I guess my question is, wouldn''t it be better to tighten up early in the game, so it doesn't get out of hand...or am I being too rigid?

Thanks again.

Answer provided by Referee Michelle Maloney

At under 12, they really aren't ready to 'tolerate' being fouled, as they are still learning the game. If it hurts or takes the ball away and it seems unfair to them, they expect the referee to do something about it. And like players at any level, if the referee can't or won't the players will take care of it their own way.

Now, the wise referee will, as Ref Wickham said in the part you quoted, pay close attention to what these kids can do skill wise. It really isn't as much a question of trying to tighten up early in the game as it is to call what is happening, and gauge from the reactions of the players whether we are calling (or not calling) what they need to have fun and be safe. We, in our vast experience and knowledge, may deem an incident as simply trifling and not worthy of stopping the game. But if the players don't agree or don't understand, then we are not doing our jobs.

You will have to experiment with what works best for these kids at this level in your games to be safe and have fun. The names of the fouls are the same - it is the common sense and level of understanding of the referee that makes the biggest difference. Keep up the good work.

Answer provided by Referee Gary Voshol

You have to balance rigid enforcement, when needed, with 'let them play'.

How you do that is by your experience. When you have some history with U12's and U14's, you will find that you have some expectations for how they will be playing. That's your starting point. But you have to read the individual game to see where it's going. If you start too rigid, you have to ease up.

I find that U12 boys and U14 girls are the ages that I have to read the game most carefully to see what will be a foul that day. Sometimes they are content to bang off each other all afternoon long and don't want fouls called for that. Sometimes they think every little touch should be a foul.

And oftentimes parents have quite different expectations than the players do! Listen to what the players want, not what the parents want.

You also have to realize that there will be changes within a single match as well. For example, if a team ties it up with 12 minutes left to play, you can expect some very intense action for those 12 minutes. You may have to tighten what you are calling based on the game situation.

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Phil
At Underage levels referees IMO should call all fouls at least everything that has an effect on the player and is not trifling. Pushing with the upper arms or elbowing is not trifling and that should be called every single time. Also where an opponent takes exception to a challenge, that is perhaps trifling to the referee but not to the player, it must be dealt with. Clearly we don't want referees that stop the game for every single small contact and that is where experience comes in. Knowing the infractions that make a difference to call is vital.
In your question you mention players elbowing. That is not acceptable and that should be called. You also mention more experienced referee saying 'if the girls tolerate it, we should too'. The point is that the referee needs to understand what toleration is as clearly having to respond in kind is far from tolerating it. It is also worth noting that when there is a mis- match of strength and playing abilities players' tolerance levels are also out of balance. This happens quite a bit with girls' soccer were perhaps younger or weaker players are introduced more readily. Players with weaker physical capabilities when they are challenged by a stronger opponent will feel they have been fouled on any contact. Against an equal opponent the same physicality is ignored.
When Referee Wickham mention tempo the referee here has to be tuned into the game. The referee will pick up that perhaps parents, coaches are urging more robust challenges and the game's temperature is rising with more and more fouls. There will be instances of both physical and verbal retribution even minor where a player takes exception to a challenge. Referees have to be alert to these signals before it takes hold so that they deal with it promptly perhaps by adopting zero tolerance from there on and a sterner attitude.
Getting the match control toothpaste back into the tube can be very difficult. Referee Valentin Ivanov's handling of Portugal v Holland in WC 2006 with 16 yellows and 4 red cards along with Referee Lopez Nient's 16 cards in the Germany v Cameroon game in WC 2002 will both attest to that. Both found it impossible to regain player discipline and match control once it was lost.
I suspect that if both were asked they could identify an incident that changed the attitude for the worst with the game sliding downhill from there. That is the key moment in the game that needs to be handled correctly.
So players adapt very quickly to the referee's tolerance levels. I see some refs who have a high threshold to challenges where their games can get very physical and depending on the players involved can either be accepted in good spirit as part of the game or it can turn nasty with players delivering their own 'justice'. The latter must not be allowed to happen.

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 25178