Question Number: 28894

Mechanics 10/23/2014

RE: Competitve Under 19

Shannon of East Palo Alto, CA USA asks...

While centering a game, there was a crowd of defenders around a player who was trying to shield the ball with the body. After the ball was away, the defenders were complaining that the offensive player threw a late elbow that I didn't see. I asked the A/R's, and they said they didn't see it.

At half-time, one of the A/Rs said that he did see it, but didn't report it. This was about 20 minutes later.

Aside from having the discussion with the A/R about not telling me, can I issue a caution (or dismissal) during the half-time for the missed call? I realize I can't call a foul at that time, but am unsure of the rules around cautions and send-offs in this situation. The reason I would want to caution is that the opposing team was escalating the physicality of the game, complaining, 'hey, they threw an elbow you didn't call, so you can't call it when we do it!' Which of course is nonsense, but the issue was more game control.

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Shannon
Lets take the easy part first. As play restarted multiple times and some lengthy time has passed the referee cannot then caution or dismiss a player for an unseen incident. It must be dealt with at the time or in the case of VC within a reasonable period responding to a flag by an AR that may be unseen. In the case of 20 minutes it more about understanding how the incident was missed and what can be done going forward. In the Pro game with video evidence etc retrospective action can be taken fro a missed incident but not at any other level. So it does happen. Hers is an incident missed by 4 officials
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6caNpwDYJ98
Balotelli was banned for four games retrospectively for this by the FA

Now as to the mechanics. You do not mention where this happened on the field of play. The AR that seen an elbow should have intervened however that can be difficult to do perhaps if the AR is sixty yards away. What should have happened is that the AR when absolutely certain of violent conduct should be flagging and getting the referees attention immediately. Part of the problem can be where a group of players are involved and well away, facing the trail AR is the identification process. What number actually committed the offence and is the AR certain of that identity as the player may be dismissed. I'm also wary of intervening as trail when I believe the CR and lead AR has seen it and close to it. I recall in a game a number of seasons ago when I asked an experienced CR why he did not take action against a player. He told me that he saw the incident as I thought but decided in the circumstances not to. He certainly would not have appreciated a flag from me some 40/50 yards away when he was beside it with an apparent good view which he later confirmed that he had.
As regards your incident you became aware of it too late and I'm at somewhat of a loss to understand why if you asked the ARs did one say the opposite at half time? From when you did become aware of it (even from players) then it required paying special attention to that player for fear of retribution and also the possibility of the player getting involved again. I would certainly adopt zero tolerance from that point on in the game and I would ask both ARs to be on high alert for off the ball incidents.
I might also also have a word with the captain and tell him that while the referee crew missed something that his team should not consider retribution as that would be dealt with sternly.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Shannon,
While not privy to all the details on how this all went down, who said what and when, I will very blunt, I do not like the situation as you have described it. That said you came here for advise, so I will do my best to provide an honest opinion!

According to you, you specifically asked your ARs and they said they saw nothing? Then 20 minutes at the end of the 1st half, one of the ARs suddenly recants and says he/she did see it but chose not to say anything??????????????????????????????????

I have no loss of words, but most are not printable in this sentence. As much as I am dismayed at the story by the AR if you as referee did not see the event, did not get it confirmed by those SUPPOSED neutral ARs to help you, then even if it happened, it did not. MUCH too late to go back. It would create huge issues and nothing good is going to come of it. Certainly MENTION this in your incident report! As a referee assignor I would be most interested in hearing how this all came about!

This player on the ground shielding the ball throwing the unseen, then later seen elbow, could need some attention if those screaming she was the one, might target her for pay back. When incidents occur that I might only surmise I could have a quiet one on one, look right at them and ask pointedly, Why did you do that? Surprisingly not all of them say, 'Do what?' but hang a head, eyes deflect, look away! or just admit it was an accident.

Plus if the elbow was thrown who is holding the black eye or knocked noggin? That person might require a brief intervention of either sorry missed it or do not go looking for trouble! Your ARs MUST be aware and REPORT to you all the off the ball incidents, watching the player or players who claimed to be victimized earlier if they are on pay back missions.

The pregame did you have one? Did you discuss how to deal with incidents in sight and out of sight of the referee? The ARs responsibility to NOT LET you make a mistake if they KNOW something you do not? Always eye contact and a PRIVATE chat with the ARs if they are signalling you they know something or if you want another neutral observation to make a final decision. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to interact with dissenting players until you confirm with your ARS if they are speaking truth or fiction. Often I wave them away until I have a PRIVATE conversation with my AR or AR's! Compare what they saw and their opinions which I add to mine! THEN I make a decision. An AR may feel embarrassed, intimidated or even disrespectful to offer a conflicting account if you publically stated for all to hear, you did not see anything.

I must admit an AR or a 4th looking in from distance needs to be sure of the VC or SFP incident. 100% id the culprit and offer the opinion to caution or dismiss with no hesitation, especially knowing the referee or another AR is closer to the action! Always EYE contact, SHARE info, NEVER DISPUTE just add you assisting information, the decision will ALWAYS be the referee's, her decision, her match, her reputation!

Square the shoulders, time to earn whatever it is they are paying you to referee that match

Players will indeed take the law into their own hands and push back when they feel an injustice has been perpetrated. You and your ARs need to grab this match by the throat and shut it down if the violence is on the upswing. Yes it is painful to whistle for every little foul but you need to do what is required if you are losing control. I have called the game so tight you couldn't get a squeak from a dissenting mouse without being all over it, to settle and calm things to a manageable point.

You can recover from a mistake if they see a true EFFORT on your part. For a brief time there are no trifling offences nothing is doubtful! In mid field it ALL gets called, you relent as they accept that things need to change.

Keep in mind not to fire random cards all over or award a pk for a shoulder rub! Counter productive if you are stifling play. You still need to call the match depending on the severity of the actions but trust me you can slow things to a crawl they will relent if your effort and attention to their safety is your central theme

You call in the captains or go over to the teams at the half include the coaches if you think it would benefit and say, 'Look I can not undo the match, and I am truly sorry if I missed a crucial decision but how we proceed the rest of the way is up to you! Either we play soccer with a degree of safety and fair play I can live with or I start getting out the book! We can start on reducing the number of players on the playing field if that is where we truly want to go?' I am fair not perfect, if I miss it I miss it but I WILL NOT ignore what I do see! We all need to go home or go to work or go to school after the match not be carted off the field!
Cheers