Question Number: 29453

Mechanics 5/30/2015

RE: Select Under 15

Brad of Plymouth, Michigan United States asks...

Long explanation, since this is an odd situation...I was CR in a Select U-14 tournament game.

Red team is on the attack and comes in fast to the penalty area just outside left goal post. I am on my proper diagonal, just behind the play with AR2 in sight on my right side. Late in game, with red trailing 0-2, so Red was attacking aggressively. My AR1 (over my left shoulder and out of my line of sight) was thus at centerfield.

Just inside penalty area both red (offense) and black (defender) collide in an attempt on ball, with red player completely visually in-line between me and black player. Both hit the ground but I could not see any clear foul ('uncertain') due to Red's body, so let play continue for about 5-10 seconds. As play moves up the touchline I turn counter-clockwise and see AR1 frantically waving his flag for a foul (per my prior instruction)--AR1 and both benches had the good line of sight to see the foul that I could not see.

I blow whistle and AR1 confirms that he saw an unequivocal push from his sight line by black defender. PK awarded, but was unsuccessful, and black went on to win.

Post-game I had a good conversation with black coach, who is also a referee. He noted (constructively) that I should probably not have blown whistle for the penalty kick since I 'had called advantage'--noting too much time had passed. I explained to him that I had NOT called advantage, but rather had not called the foul until my AR1 alerted me to it. As there had been no stoppage of play, I thought it correct to stop play and apply the foul, given AR1's clear observation and report. Black coach suggested the time had probably passed--he was very civil and gracious, but was quite certain that this call was incorrect. While I agree that it was too late--had I called advantage--the fact was that I had NOT called advantage but instead relied on my AR1's input (albeit later than ideal).

A few thoughts and questions:
I know I need to watch my AR's, but in this scenario the AR was over my shoulder--it seems my first priority (particularly with ball so deep) is to focus on the play. Any recommendations? Or is this just 'one of those weird moments'?

And the critical question: Should I have ignored this and not awarded a PK? I think my call was proper, but appreciate feedback from those who have done this longer.

Thank you refs--as always! Your site is invaluable to my and my son's development as new referees!

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Brad
It is for this reason that referee crews now have technology such as buzzer flag and mikes so the communication is instant. Although even at that referee crews are wary of multiple opinions in such instances.
Now to the mechanics of this. I'm not sure it is a credible call for the AR1 at half way to be making a penalty call in AR2 half when the referee is much closer. In fact most AR instructions is to only call fouls in their vicinity and to call violent conduct anywhere on the field of play. Assistant referees should not signal for an offense they see if they have every reason to believe the referee has also seen the offense. So personally I think AR1 overstepped the mark with the flag. As he has flagged though then AR2 needs to raise his flag to mirror that of AR1. Play is stopped immediately and the CR deals with the incident.
I was AR1 in a recent game and AR2 did not call a foul in his area. Obviously the bench behind me was quite vocal and aggressive about the non call. It looked like a foul yet AR2 was looking at it as was the CR. I was some 40/50 yards away. At the post match discussion AR2 explained that he had a perfect view of the incident and there was no foul. This was confirmed by the CR. There was another incident where the CR thought that there was no foul and AR2 flagged which was taken. When discussed AR2 said that the defender on his side had used his arm to lever downwards the attacker. In the first situation had I been waving for a foul that would not have been welcome nor desirable. Indeed I would have been marked down in assessment for such an intervention.
As to the timing of this the law allows for the referee to go back as play has not restarted. I would be of the opinion that unless the foul is called within a short period I believe the opportunity to call it is less credible with the one exception of violent conduct.

Answer provided by Referee Dennis Wickham

The decision to award a penalty kick based on information from the assistant referee is exactly why the assistant is there. The AR should raise the flag only if 100 percent sure that: (a) the referee didn't see it; and (b) the referee would have called it had the referee seen it. The referee team has six set of eyes working for the good of the game.

Unlike advantage, the referee does not have a limited amount of seconds to see the AR and call the foul. There is one limit, however. Except for violent conduct, when play is stopped and allowed to restart, the referee cannot go back and change the decision. This is one reason why the referee should look at each AR at every stoppage in play.

But, one of the takeaways from this event is that staying on the 'normal' diagonal during a counter-attack will often cause a problem for the referee. As the referee crosses behind the players to get to the left side of the field: (1) the referee is not in a good position to see the AR; and more importantly, (2) there will be a few seconds when the referee is behind the players and has no angle to see the foul.

The first problem is solved by training yourself always to look at the AR when you cross the field (best practiced when nothing is happening during the game). The second problem is best solved during a counter attack by running toward the AR (as if you were on a reverse diagonal) to get a 30 degree angle on the counterattack. From there, you can see any foul. When the attack fails, the player pulls up, or the ball is crossed, the referee can then cut back toward the normal diagonal.

Answer provided by Referee Ben Mueller

The AR is to call any fouls that you either did not see or that they were closer to than the referee. If the AR sees a foul and believes he had a better view than you...he first must ask himself if he believes you would want it called (based on your pre game and how you have been calling the game). He then must ask if you would want to play advantage (again based on how you have applied advantage in that game). Finally, if he believes that you would want it called, he must put flag up and give it a slight wave. Sounds like this is what happened.

As for you. Try and communicate and maintain eye contact with ARs as much as possible. Yes, you are going to be watching play. The other AR should mirror the far AR to help you out. The AR should keep the flag up until he has your attention in the result of a foul or serious incident.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Brad,
while I agree with 3 officials we have additional sets of eyes and add a 4th we get more to help spot the things that require spotting it is certainly UNUSAL for a trailing AR to call a foul in the opposing PA from near midfield!

Although I do recall an incident many years ago in the EPL where a PK ...WAS... initially called by the CR but it was the midfield AR that contacted the referee and explained that the attacker had reached around the defender to play the ball with his arm and it was actually a DFK out in favour of the defence. In the replay it was noticeable but I was thinking unscrupulous thoughts, I wondered did he really see it, as it was hard to see close up, never mind far away? I wondered if the AR must have seen a replay or someone saw it and told the AR? I believe the referee was being told that by the defender who was nearly carded for his dissent and the attacker feeling a trifle unsporting admitted to the incident. So it was a big deal. The near AR was uncertain but figured if the CR saw it different and thus did not raise any initial objections suggesting he saw it otherwise, when he too had doubts. It did prove to be the CORRECT call so kudos for the ...TEAM... of officials getting it right!

What is likely thought by the black is his assumption, the incident occurred in front of you, that you did see it, were not uncertain, that you did not call it because you applied advantage. The fact he says you called advantage for a pk foul tells me he does not understand what a true advantage is or how its use in around the PA is to evolve. I will agree with the black coach, this is a bit different than a foul that occurs in behind you, totally out of your view. Where you will have no idea that anything was happening. Here it was clear you saw something happening, just not the push, you saw a collision. You did NOT apply advantage, you did not see the foul, and the fact that 10 seconds elapsed before the AR communicated a PK situation is a fact of not having buzzer flags or radio sets attached. The fact is an incident ...ONLY... witnessed by an AR or 4th official involving a foul /misconduct that was...UNSEEN... by the referee can still be acted upon provided no restart has occurred in the interim. Although a referee can change his mind if he has not restarted play, if he misses or overlooks something, then it suddenly dawns on him that a REQUIRED intervention is needed, it will never look good no matter how correct in law by making late calls. It will be presumed to be as a result of outside influence or uncertainty

If you had a buzzer it goes off on the arm the fact that the buzzers are set to each AR you are aware of the mid AR has input. If AR has radio mike set up ' black shoved red directly from behind 100% clear penalty' CR would know the AR saw it would know he was convinced it was a PK would know he as CR was blocked from seeing it. Technology is it not wonderful but for the recreational level where the majority of matches in the world occur such do dads are not used !

If we are to assume the trailing AR is initially thinking you saw it and delays his flag only to realize hey the CR is not calling that, he must NOT have seen it, so a few seconds passed, then pops the flag is to me more in line with procedure, or did that AR immediately pop the flag? That is a big deal, if as you say you told them, if you see it as something you know you would call, given you were close by looking in. I usually say something along the lines, if I am close looking in give me a moment to make the call. You can pop, to support me if I call it but if you have issues get my eye , wave me over ,shrug shoulder, quizzical look, a grasped fist of jersey = pull/hold? A open hand = push? A slight kicking motion =kick/trip?. However, if you ABSOLUTELY KNOW it is a foul and you KNOW I missed it go ahead, try for eye contact and pop the flag. We are to get it right even if we are not looking good in doing so.

Just a side note but it is important as CR when witnessing incidents that you avoid putting the whistle up to your mouth then dropping it away. It implies you saw something, were thinking about it, but changed your mind. This might influence your AR in thinking you are ok with what just happened. Mind you the AR across from you is in fact your eye contact to the AR in behind you. The mirror flag concept requires the ARs look across at each other but it is easy to lose focus or narrowly focus on the situation directly in front of you instead of the far touchline at midfield. You mention it is you seeing the far AR flag not seeing the near AR mirroring that flag first. Still it is important to remind all that this PK event, this push that goes initially undetected by you, there is a collision, there will be a roar from the touchlines that SOMETHING has occurred. You as CR are AWARE you are blocked/screened so you could look over to near AR who should check the far AR who has flag raised, mirror that signal and point over so CR stops play to communicate with ARs.

The closer AR looking across MAY or MAY not have seen the push again thinking the CR is right there looking on, so he keeps his flag down. Not wanting to take the PK responsibility. Hard to say, best you all sit in post game and review what was going on in the mind of all concerned. I do know that some CRs will have a great deal to say to an AR from midfield calling for a PK of an incident that occurred in front of them. Not all will be as tolerant unless they accept it was indeed the correct call. It will go to credibility as much as ego might be affected but if it was a correct call, hard to argue it should be ignored. Which the CR could chose to do!

The diagonal as a mechanics is a fluid evolving pattern but I ...HATE.. chasing play, I do everything I can to anticipate play so it comes to me instead of me chasing the ball. Might have something to do with getting older lol and not as fast as I once was. Easier if the teams are skilled as there is greater tactical consistency .

No matter we run what is called a diagonal, straight lines are key for you getting ahead of play or to catch up to play. Ref Wickham's makes an excellent point when explaining how a normal pattern of running at angle is in fact detrimental to be able to analyze dynamic play. While it is true the unexpected run , or deflection of a ball will catch us out, we must be able to recover quickly to get good angles! Vision is the essential component of an effective referee to see what needs to be seen from a place where it can be! The usefulness of the ARs looking in is the CRs have no worries about trying to look in on those angles. Hence is why they reposition elsewhere.

Looking in between players with the ball in front of both is a preferred view, to rotate, to get that angle is not always possible. Inside the PA we like to try to stay out side corner edges of the arc but circumstances sometimes demand we straight walk along the top to look in instead of across.

In summation it is the credibility issue where the event occurs right in front of you despite being screened and someone 50 yards away makes the call. You were correct in law to do as you did, just realize you will not look as efficient as it could have been. I would prefer if your near AR had popped his flag as quick as the mid AR did, still you did as you BELIEVED was in the best interest of the match. It seems while black was not impressed with how it went down he was, by saying you applied advantage, that there was in fact a foul. Best to agree to disagree and move on!


Cheers

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