Question Number: 29474

Law 11 - Offside 6/10/2015

RE: Intermediate Under 13

Phil of Tarzana, CA United States asks...

This question is a follow up to question 29468

This is a follow up question to Q# 29468. Referee Dawson said that control is no longer an issue regarding offside & want to know why. The change to the LOTG regarding offside was that 'deceive or distract' was changed to challenging for the ball. This seams to deal with acts by the PIOP, rather than the defenders. However, if the defender has unchallenged control of the ball, offside resets. If it rebounds (or if there's a deliberate save) then offside doesn't reset. I interpreted that to mean that the defender didn't have control. I picture a deliberate save as sort of a desperate (yet deliberate) attempt to prevent the ball from going into the net or to another attacker, & therefore, not really control. The same is true with an immediate challenge by the PIOP.

Are we just describing events with slightly different wording or do I have the concept incorrect?

Thanks again for all the advice!

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Phil,
keep in mind our advice is freely given but we are NOT the final authority you ultimately answer to!
Aside from gestures that 'deceive or distract , the word movement was also removed!
Offside phraseology has been reduced to very simple concepts of challenged, deliberate, line of sight, touched and saved. Controlled possession of the ball is not the overriding factor to determine offside is reset, if the ball is ...deliberately played... it resets offside because the ball is NO LONGER last touched by a team mate . A deliberately played ball MAY or may not be under control by the defender but if it is NOT under control it does not mean it IS a rebound or deflection, it could be a mistake. We do not reward mistakes. The addition of the inclusion of a ...deliberate save... takes all guess work out of if there was any or no control or if it was or was not a rebound or deflection as it is a safe blanket of non control per say whether or not there is any present. I believe offside is currently being taught as an inclusion of space and time allowing for a deliberate play to be a choice of action. I tend to think that the desire for greater opportunities to score is behind all recent changes to offside.
Have a read/look at the link below
http://www.proreferees.com/news-play-of-the-week-2015-week-9.php

As a method of determining deliberate play versus rebound or offside, I have ventured the idea to look at it in the same manner as deliberate handling, where the ball impacting the player's arm is NOT a foul . In the same manner, a ball impacting into player is not deliberately played because it is the ball doing the decision making, the player does not have time, space or knowledge to coordinate his deliberate actions.

If you examined the video embedded in the last post not a single offside call was correct according to the LOTG as they are now implemented.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/106943897

Note the proximity and actions or non actions of the PIOPs (players in offside positions) or ORPs (offside restricted players) and ask yourself how much true control was exerted in the ensuing plays by the defenders? It is not there cannot be... control... it is just its absence is no excuse to say the ball was not deliberately played. In my opinion to include the word ...control.. as the measure stick of reset for offside is the same as trying to use the word ...intent... to judge a foul. WE used to but we do not any longer!

I hold the opinion, be it correct or not subject to speculation, that many individuals in wrestling with offside are troubled by the fact that mere presence creates ...PRESSURE... and feel the PIOP being close or closing down near a defender playing or receiving the ball is affecting their ability to control the ball. That is why the broad brush of a CHALLENGE is now painted as the judgment as to the definitive... ACTIONS... of a PIOP or ORP actually affecting the ability for a defender to be able to play the ball and control the outcome of that touch. It is essential in understanding the definition of skill, knowing how and when to use their techniques to control or play the ball in an hour and a half match a single player may gets less than 90 seconds, 1.5 minutes of time with the ball at his feet during the entire match. If you cannot function under pressure you likely can not function well on a soccer pitch. Football is a mental game of 88 minutes with 2 minutes of talents and skills with the ball. Not every shot scores, nor every pass is on target, neither is any deliberate touch of the ball a guarantee of control!

Answer provided by Referee Dennis Wickham

The definition of gaining advantage has changed. It is not gaining an advantage to play the ball received from a 'deliberate play' of the opponent (other than a deliberate save). In the past, we looked to see if the opponent had clear possession and control before resetting offside position. That notion is no longer applicable. A player in offside position is entitled to play the ball when it is received from an opponent's miss- play of the ball. (Note: there has not been a change regarding a deflection. If the ball is received from a deflection off an opponent, the player in offside position still may not play the ball.)

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Phil
When IFAB amended Law 11 advice it added in the statement that a player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage plus it added in deflection along with rebound.
So what does all that mean. It means that a deliberate play may not exert the control intended by the player yet it is still a deliberate play and therefore resets offside.
I still struggle somewhat with Law 11 and it recent iterations. I still think though that the grey area that exists in the failed attempt to play the ball say with the head / knee and the ball glances off the player due to lack of height / reach. Those are in my book a questionable deliberate play. I have seen one such videos on US Pro sites showing such a situation with the ARs flag waved down.
http://www.proreferees.com/news-play-of-the-week---2014---wk33.php
The reasoning given was the ball was deliberately played
I found that a questionable resets and it comes down to the interpretation. I don't know if the AR seen the touch by the defender or whether he interpreted it as a deflection. The site states that if his head goes towards the ball it has to be regarded a deliberate play. If he remains stationary and the ball hits him and goes to the PIOP then that is a deflection.
UEFA states that
The ball is deflected when it changes direction and the player:
# Doesn’t move towards the ball
# Finds the ball coming against him and attempts to play it
# Creates an obstacle (Free kick or shot)
The challenge can be is where the ball is blasted from a closer range by an attacking player and the ball hits the defender who is creating an obstacle by moving as the game is dynamic?

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 29475

See Question: 30076