Question Number: 30310

Mechanics 4/17/2016

RE: Intermediate Under 13

Phil of Tarzana, CA United States asks...

This question is a follow up to question 30296

When you say 'poor mechanics', can you explain what the AR or CR should have done? If the AR wasn't sure that there's a goal, then he would have no reason to signal.
Thank you,

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Phil
An AR should not be taking 20+ seconds to inform the referee that a goal has been scored. It should happen instantly with the AR signal as outlined in the law.
If there was no goal then a discreet head shake or wave away hand signal will assist the referee. If there is uncertainty then I do not believe it can be given. The AR could raise his flag and invite the referee across to discuss what in fact happened. That would be unusual although he could be sure it crossed the goal line yet not certain where.
Imagine that if in the England v Germany WC game in the Lampard missed goal if the AR some 30 seconds later at the next stoppage informed the referee that it was a goal!! Okay in Law yet terible mechanics
In this incident the AR thinks the ball has crossed the goal line in the goal.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O0YiuSbBdaQ
If he was unsure then he flags and stays where he is. That alerts the referee that all is not well as he is not moving up the line to confirm a goal or confirm a goal kick / corner kick. The CR will then come across to discuss the doubtful point and agree a decision. In this incident it was a very poor decision by both officials. The CR ultimately had to see that it was a yards wide. So if the AR thought it was a goal yet doubtful he raises the flag yet does not move. The CR comes across to be told that the ball crossed the goal line yet he was not sure if it was inside or outside the post. The CR may be able to confirm what he saw.
On a hairline goal the person really best placed to give those is the AR. The referee can give it if he sees it clearly cross the line yet the AR may be looking directly across in a much better position.

Answer provided by Referee MrRef

Hello Phil,
This is a strange situation. While I try to reconstruct a mental picture from the verbal clues it appears the confusion is with the AR not accepting the ball WAS over the goal line on the initial shot?

Whether he was unsure it came off the inside of the net or outside the net IF the ball was OVER the goal line, the AR MUST indicate the ball is out of play then TALK over with the CR his concerns. Now you are correct if the AR is unsure that either (A) A goal was scored or (b) the ball had crossed the goal line, then he is not to give a signal but if the C makes eye contact he can do the, I have no idea gesture, a palms up shrug! Pro level they are miked up so the CR or AR could simply talk.

I am having difficulty understanding the decision to award the goal? If the AR was uncertain it had crossed the goal line? It seems apparent that the CR thought the ball was INSIDE the netted area of goal between the posts under the crossbar but unsure if the ball had completely crossed the goal line. When the AR gives him no indication that this was a goal or that it was out of play the CR allows play to continue. Referee Dawson asked how they were sure it was a goal? If the AR can not verify it crossed the goal line I am puzzled to see how the CR or 4th could be certain? Yet if the AR saw the ball make contact with the net just not sure if it outside or inside the goal WHERE was that ball in relationship to the goal line? Was the net stretched tight, was it hanging loose? How did this punch out occur? If the AR was in fact unsure it was a goal but crossed the goal line he Must indicate to the CR by raised flag, eye contact stand and talk . The fact the CR is awarding the goal based on the dissent of the team arguing it was, is a decision he makes NOW based on the AR retelling him of what he thought he saw not the AR telling him it was a goal. I think the premise here is flawed but if the AR was unsure of the ball crossing the goal line, which is the only reason not to signal, then perhaps your concerns have some validation. I like to get eye contact head shake or thumbs up or down even if no flag is given.

QUESTION 30256
Law 5 - The Referee 4/5/2016

RE: select Professional

Hussain Jan of Muscat, muscat Oman asks...

On a free kick the ball went to goal net and Gk punched the ball back. I was waiting for AR signal that did the ball crossed the line? but no signal from AR. Ball was in play, opposite team took the ball and made a foul so match stopped (it took about 30 seconds). Players moved towards AR to appeal. I sent them back and we both and fourth official discussed. AR said the ball touched the net but i was confused whether it came from inside or outside. If the ball came between the goal posts then it is goal because ball totally crossed the line.so we decide that ball is goal. Opposite team denied that AR must decide in seconds otherwise this late decision is wrong. Can you explain?

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Hussain
A late decision is simply that. Late. If play has not restarted then the referee can and should go back to the original decision.
In this case even if it was 20/30 seconds late as long as the decision was correct that is if the ball crossed the goal line then a goal is awarded.
Obviously it is poor mechanics by the AR yet it does not negate the fact that a goal was scored nor does time make it a wrong decision. It would only be *wrong* if the ball did not cross the goal line or that play had restarted.


Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Hussain,
The decision may not be wrong just poorly presented!
The selling aspect of the goal is complicated by the delay but it does not mean that the decision to award the goal is invalid. If as you indicated the ball completely crossed the goal line UNDER the crossbar and between the posts then if there was no infringement by the team scoring we have a good goal.
As long as no restart had occurred the goal is still available to be counted IF you are satisfied the requirements for a goal were in fact met?

This punch out and net touch seems rather vague to me, given how a net hangs? Is the ball hitting the netting at the top of goal above the crossbar or the part stretching around the sides by the posts before it was punched out?? Why are you sure it went in? Could it have entered through a hole in the netting?

Cheers

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