Question Number: 30899

Law 11 - Offside 10/14/2016

RE: Select Under 13

Clarke Oldham of Franklin, Tn USA asks...

A player is in a break away position behind the defense and shoots. The keeper makes the initial stop but another player from the same team get the rebound and scores. This is the scenario.

There was no offside called on the goal. The center refs calls the goal but then goes and discuss it with the side ref. The goal is reversed because of the offside rule.

Questions - If there has not been an offside call made during the run of play and a goal is scored, are the refs allowed to converse and change or reverse the non-offside call to offside?

Also, if the side ref was behind the play because they could not keep up should they be allowed to make the offside call?

Answer provided by Referee Jason Wright

Hi Clarke,

Referees are allowed to change their decision provided that play hasn't restarted nor the match ended.
It may be, for instance, that it was quite a new referee running the line and felt uncertain in a particular situation. The referee suspected offside, had a conversation, and made a decision.

With the offside law there are scenarios where a defender playing the ball can 'nullify' an offside (and these laws are harsher on defenders this year), as well as when the keeper parries the ball. Note that a typical save wouldn't be a parry and wouldn't nullify any offside infringement. So it might be that in having the discussion with the AR, the referee found that the AR had incorrectly thought that the keeper's save nullified the offside. This is all speculation, but it's a very plausible possibility - especially if the AR is inexperienced (we may have read the book and done a course, but all the real learning is on the job!)

As for whether the side ref was behind play - are you certain on that? I doubt you were looking at the AR at the moment the ball was last touched by an attacker. Even if he was behind play, he's still likely to have been in a better position than yourself or the referee, so still the better one to make the judgement.

Of course, it may be that the referee was certain it was offside but let it go because the AR didn't flag, went and talked to him and the AR was uncertain. Again, pure speculation but certainly possible.

In these scenarios where you have 2 attackers against the goalkeeper, the second attacker needs to remain level with or behind the ball until the teammate releases it. Even level can be pushing it - officials can make mistakes.

Answer provided by Referee Peter Grove

Hi Clarke,

The answer to your first question is fairly straightforward - yes, the match officials are allowed to confer and if necessary, the referee can then change an initial decision made while the game is still ongoing, so long as play has not restarted. In fact, many would say that this is preferable to not conferring and allowing an incorrect decision to go unchallenged and uncorrected, especially when it involves such a potentially match-altering decision as whether a goal was scored.

As to your second question, there is is not a straight yes/no answer. Normally, the assistant referees are primarily the officials that make offside calls and most referees will normally defer to their assistant on the question of offside positioning. Having said that, all decisions of the AR's are subject to the overriding authority of the referee. It is certainly not a desirable situation to have an AR making a call where they were not in the best position to be able to judge things accurately. If, for this reason (or any other) the referee decides not to accept the AR's call, then s/he is not obliged to do so.

As Ref Wright says, this may not have been so much about the position of the player who scored the 'goal' as to whether offside was reset by the goalkeeper's actions. In the final analysis, it's up to the referee to decide whether to go with the AR's call or not (and as mentioned, we don't know exactly why the decision was changed here).

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Clark,
Although mitigating circumstances can affect the final decision of a referee, the LOTG actually permit a referee to change a decision or award a new or different decision provided play was not stopped then restarted if he determines that a mistake was made or chooses to believe NEW advice from his neutral ARS or 4th . It is unwise to do this often as you could appear indecisive and weak but it is far better to arrive at the correct decision then stay with an incorrect one simply because you as CR might look foolish. We are all entitled to state our opinion of an event which we perceive as unfair, but that assumption is not necessarily the truth or fact but conjecture. .

Offside because it is CRITERIA based is not always easily discerned that all facets are 100% clear. ARS are often chastised for too early a flag thus perhaps forcing a CR to stop play unnecessarily. The old adage 'When in doubt do NOT wave it about' reflects the desire of FIFA and the IFAB for referees to be SURE before committing to a decision. Yet in the waiting to make this decision it can become unclear if the criteria is or was in fact met.
There is only one of two possibilities for declaring no goal and awarding an offside.
BEFORE the breakaway shot there was an offside situation that was somehow missed or not recognized, perhaps by the shooter himself who was an offside restricted player prior to receiving the ball for the breakaway opportunity?
OR more likely : When that breakaway shot was taken the LAST touch occurs at that moment . The resulting SAVE, as a deliberate save action would NOT reset offside! So IF, there was a restricted player who was in behind the 2nd last opponent or in front of the ball when the breakaway striker took his shot, upon the follow up shot, that shooter would be still restricted as OPP and ineligible to participate.

Now did the CR state he awarded the goal by pointing to the centre circle OR did he simply blow the whistle to stop play when the ball entered the goal? Glance up at his AR to see the AR shaking his head and by NOT assuming the "I saw a good goal position" our silent signal of thumbs up for a good goal is for the AR to sprint up the touchline assuming a kickoff ready position. If he has ISSUES with the goal he remains standing, perhaps shaking his head or a little come here wave indicating we need to talk. .So the CR could go over to confer at the bequest of the AR who might indicate a problem OR if the CR felt there was an offside but thought he would get the AR perspective to see why the flag was not raised?
Upon discussing the situation the CR, who might state his thoughts as he listens to the neutral AR advise and conclude there was an offside that went unflagged is more than conjecture, given the goal WAS not awarded and an INDFK was! We do not know who said what or why for that only they know what transpired in their conversation we are only speculating.

I should note that when the 2nd last opponent is not the issue then often the ball location itself in relation to the follow up team mate ! Upon the last touch by the shooter, a trailing team mate might, APPEAR to be ahead of the shooter, simply because the trailing or following team mate is striding and leaning forward when the shooter is leaning back and his shooting foot is outstretched at the moment of ball release. This is when the AR must be VERY observant as to the BALL Location and the forward extremities of legal playing body parts, head knee foot etc... of the following or trailing player that MUST be discernably ahead of the ball itself (NOT THE PLAYER WHO SHOOTS) is closer to the opposition goal line.
Cheers


PS have a look at this video and our 29240 answer
http://soc.cr/K5dcI

28668 and this video
http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2014-08-16-new-england-revolution-vs-portland-timbers/details/video/22997

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Clarke
Sometime mechanics can prevent a lot of grief in these situations. In a recent high level national game I was an AR. With about two minutes to go Whites were awarded a free kick. The ball was touched short and White had a shot that was saved which rebounded to another White player who had clearly moved into an offside position at the first touch. My flag went up instantly the White PIOP touched the rebounded ball from a save and the CR instantly blew the whistle for the offside. The quick flag and whistle helped *sell* the call which would have resulted in a winning goal. Most accepted the call due to the manner in which it was made.
Now to your questions
1. The CR can change any decision provided play has not restarted nor the game has ended. So no problem about officials conferring and reaching a decision.
2. AR are given responsibility by the CR for offside because they have a side on view and usually best placed to do so. Some very tight calls require that the AR is level with the 2nd last opponent and many times offside is so obvious that the AR or for that matter a CR can make the call from a distance.
At the highest level on a very quick break it is not unusual for an AR to get out of position. A Usain Bolt type winger can outpace defenders as well as ARs and his subsequent pass will require the AR to make a judgment call as to the position of the other attackesr relative to the ball and opponents.
So behind play does happen at all levels and a call has to be made based on the way play unfolds which BTW the AR is entitled to make.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzVJK2Js1W0