Question Number: 32332

Law 11 - Offside 3/24/2018

RE: Competetive Under 16

Jim of HILLSBOROUGH, NJ US asks...

At what point does the AR raise the Flag for Offside. Example there is a shot on a DFK from about 25-30 yds out. 2 offenders are in offside positions at time of kick. Offender A is at about the 6-7 yds out from goal. Offender B about 10-12 yds out. The DFK is a shot on the goalie. The shot/kick makes the goalie drift toward the Offender A to save the ball. The AR can see that the Offender A is in offside position but not if he is interfering with the goalie's attempt to play the ball.

Question: Does the AR raise the flag to indicate the player is offside position?

Does the AR need to wait until the player touches the ball to raise the flag?

If the AR should not raise the flag, how is the CR to know if the offender is in an offside position if the ball goes in the net even if the offender does not touch the ball? In other words interfering with the goalie or attempting to play the ball while in an offside position even if not actually touching it.

Answer provided by Referee Peter Grove

Hi Jim,
Although obviously it's difficult to tell exactly, based on your description, I do not see any indication that either player is affecting the goalkeeper's ability to play the ball. Your question seems to imply the fact that the goalkeeper drifts towards one of the attackers means an offside offence has been committed - this is not the case. There would only be an offence if the opponent has blocked with the goalkeeper's line of sight or clearly impacted on the keeper's ability to play the ball (or if the player ultimately touches the ball).

The AR should raise the flag as soon as the player fulfils the criteria for committing an offside offence. This can happen before the player touches the ball, if the player interferes with an opponent by:

''preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball''

As you can see, the offence is based on what the attacker does, not what the keeper (or defender) does. If the keeper 'drifts' towards the attacker that does not constitute an offence.

The referee does not need to know when the players are in an offside position, only if they commit an offside offence - and the AR should flag as soon as that happens. The only tricky one is when it's a question of obstructing the keeper's line of vision. Obviously the AR is not in a good position to judge this. So if the AR sees a player in an offside position when a shot goes into the net but isn't sure if they interfered with the opponent, the AR should initiate a dialogue with the referee. Depending on the protocol in use and/or pre-match discussion this could be by raising the flag, standing still or using the comms system. Between the two of them, they should then establish if an actual offside offence has occurred or not.

Answer provided by Referee Jason Wright

Hi Jim,
If the AR is raising the flag, then that's telling the referee that play needs to stop.
It does get tricky when the AR knows there's a Player In an Offside Position but unsure if an offence has occurred. It's a bit like when a free kick is taken, all players are onside. Ball is deflected from somebody in the mob of players in the middle, and goes to an attacker who was in an offside position at that deflection - AR has no idea who touched it, so no idea if an infringement has occurred.

The best thing you can do is keep the flag down, and if needed, call the referee over when the ball goes out. Any doubt, call the ref over to talk about it. So that means if the goal is scored you'll stand in your spot, make eye contact, and signal that you want the referee to approach you.


This is also where it's important to know what's conventional in your area. Different nations and regions may have different protocols here - some of us may raise the flag then indicate that you want to talk to the ref, some may simply stand still (given you're unsure if there's an offence) then indicate a talk is warranted. I believe even how to indicate that you want to talk to the referee can vary.
This is one of those things that is advisable to cover in a prematch discussion, especially if different refs in the area approach it differently.
Your first role in offside is to judge position. The referee will probably have a better angle to determine interference.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Jim.
the AR raises the flag when 100% convinced the PIOP is NOW involved in active play. Keep in mind it is NOT what the keeper does it is based ONLY on what the PIOPs do.
The difficulty is a PIOP might not do ANYTHING except stand in a bad spot and be guilty of offside for simply blocking the line of sight of the keeper or be in the way of an opponent who must move around him in order to play the ball effectively. YET that is an INDFK offence
In direct response to your 1st question
Does the AR raise the flag to indicate the player is off side position?
NO! only for involvement.
In direct response to your 2nd question
Does the AR need to wait until the player touches the ball to raise the flag?
That depends!
YES a touch is indeed an automatic INDFK Out for interfering with play or gaining an advantage off a rebound or deflection or deliberate save. YOU raise the flag BECAUSE of INVOLVEMENT not position. The position was what made him a PIOP who is not permitted to be involved!
But for a PIOP to interfere with an opponent it involves a challenge or blocking situation that affects the opponents ability to fairly get to the ball. and NO, a physical touch of the ball is not required just the blocking ACTION by the PIOP.

When an obvious goal is scored off a POSSIBLE offside situation but you are unsure ,you wait along the goal line, get eye contact and discretely wave the referee over to talk. The CR if he is indicating a goal or if has issues that it might not be a good goal he will come over to you to investigate your view and compare it with his own.

If you had sprinted up the touchline to the top of the 18 you as AR are signalling kick off to your CR without saying a word.

If the goal is not obvious but still the ball was completely inside then went back out, play is continuing you need to raise the flag to indicate the ball is definitely out of play. Then the discussion of offside will follow because you will still stand at the goal line eye contact and drop the flag .
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Jim
Opening line of Law 11 tells us that it is not an offence to be in an offside position. So a player in an offside position has to do something more to be called offside and we know that to be interfering with play by touching the ball or interfering with an opponents which is set out in Law 11.
The offside flag should only be raised when the offside offence has been committed. In 99% of the time the AR will know it is offside as the PIOP has touched the ball or he has challenged an opponent or he has attempted to play the ball which impacts on an opponent. The flag goes up on the touch of the ball or the challenge / interference with the caveat of the lone PIOP concession.
Now we know that the difficult one is line of sight interference as the AR will see the player in an offside position yet may be unsure if he is in line of sight to an opponent. For me line of sight interference results when the player is stood close or reasonably close to the opponent blocking his view. Standing 10 / 18 yards away is not blocking a line of sight view to the ball. We know that angle of view widens considerably the further we are stood away and the same applies to offside.
Have a look at this video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fR1cmg3YgkY
The quality is not great yet it shows players in an offside position at the moment of a shot on goal. The AR knows that they are there in an offside position and after the goal is scored he stands in position which tells the CR that he has a problem as he is unsure if there was interference or not . CR comes across to discuss the situation and it is then decided to call offside with the flag then raised. Video replays showed that there was no line of sight interference and the call was made incorrectly probably based on the fact that one PIOP moved to avoid the ball. The CR was not positioned to call the line of sight interference and imo it was a guess based on the move to avoid by the PIOP and the appeal by the GK which was an attempt to get offside called which worked.
http://worldsoccertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cheick-tiote-disallowed-goal.jpg
Have a look at this video
https://vimeo.com/106945484
Is there line of sight interference here given that the defending team has placed a defensive wall in front if the ball. I would opine no interference yet other may.

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 32335