Question Number: 12224

Character, Attitude and Control 2/19/2006

RE: Select Under 13

Joe Morefield of Norton Shores, michigan USA asks...

This question is a follow up to question 12207

Oh I see you are just answering just a part of the whole question.

See Question # 10392 and then 12207.

I don't expect referee's to be perfect. I do expect that they know the laws and that they fill a game report accurately.

I don't even expect to know what, if any, discipline the referee got.

You didn't answer in context.

If I cannot dispute a wrong call (see Question 10392 before answering) afterwards. My only option is to argue with the ref until I'm blue in the face before the ball is put back in play (Which i don't think is appropriate).

My head man of referees here in Michigan cannot even give me any advice on how to porceed if this was to happen again. I hope you have something else besides "let it go, thats just part of the game"

That will only lead to abuse of referee's and I am an referee too!!!!

If i make a wromg call according to the laws what do I care if the game is overturned I have no agenda whatsoever on who wins or loses if I make a mistake I expect the league to make it right.

Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer

By arguing a referee's decision YOU are abusing the referee Mr. Morefield. This you have no right to do because it brings The Game into disrepute.

Because you are a referee YOU have the obligation to know the Laws of the Game as well as we, panelists, do. To know anything less is a disservice to the players you referee. If you feel those appointed above you are incompetent put yourself in a position where it's known you can do a better job and take theirs. That will fix the problem.

Until then a referee's decision regarding facts connected with play is final. No coach, near a field where I referee, who turns blue in the face is going to be near that field very long. The match report will be written forcefully enough to ensure a lengthy ban from all matches and practices for that blue in the face coach. I, for one, will never tolerate this behavior in a member of any technical staff or any referee who tolerates the behavior while being assessed by me.

It will stop! And it will stop regardless the tradition of "Kill The Ump" that seems so pervasive in this country. Free speech is fine, but the referee's decision closes the door on discussion because, by the International Football Association's Law 5, his word is final.

If you know the referee has made an incorrect decision under Law, not opinion, you need only to cite the Law incorrectly applied and file a protest. If you are correct, the match will be overturned.

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

Hi Joe. When you posted question12207, I had no idea what question you were referring to. In the future, do like you did with this question and give the number. New question, as far as during the game's concerned, arguing with the referee not only doesn't do any good but puts you in the wrong. You acted perfectly well in this instance and I, again, commend you for it. You don't want to hear this but other than briefly pointing out an obvious error, you can do ZILCH,NOTHING,NADA. But, after the game ends, there's a lot you can do. Contact the referee assignor and describe what happened. Ask that the referee be assessed. You can take this or any other matter up with the State powers that be. They welcome input. Please, I know it's frustrating but don't succumb to being a banal pain in the butt by yellong or arguing with the referee, even if he's wrong. Sends a bad message to your players and only makes you look bad.
keith

Answer provided by Referee Debbie Hoelscher

Joe: wasn't this you whining and complaining about not being "allowed to know if the referee received any discipline." My whole point to my response was simple: The game is done. The referee made a mistake (which is human), and your precious ego is all outta whack because you can't let it go. (I have pasted the 12207 comment here for easy review: "Unfortunatly I got nowhere with my league or the state. They basically stated that the game is final now and there is no reversing. I am not allowed to know if the referee recieved any discipline for not doing the right thing and not recording the yellow card in the game report. Just another big disappointment in the system!! ...Joe") So if you choose to turn blue in the face and set a new low standard of excellence in front of your U13 team, go ahead. It won't be tolerated on my game, nor on any of my colleague's game, that's for sure.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Joe , 10392
I never responded to either question but I will add an opinion to the material all ready received. It is OK to be upset at something perceived real or imagined as unfair, in fact you are not human if you have no reaction. It is OK to disagree but it is in the way conflict is resolved that separates those mired in limitations from those free of remorse. As my colleagues stated we are at a loss as to why a referee would allow the goal IF the circumstances are exactly as described

You witnessed something that you felt was unfair. You had an AR who may have seen what you saw if the flag was in fact raised for the reason you claim. You reported the incident and filled out the protest forms complete with the fee required to contest a match under league policies? The league disciplinary committee failed to act in a way that you felt was needed? I can tell you stories where as coach protests were filed on 4 consecutive matches for events not unlike your own.

I can only say that the policies in place should require a hearing of sorts to determine the validity of any protest that is legally filed in a proper manner under prescribed directions. Often the criteria of time limits, special documentation and monetary fees must be fulfilled before a protest application is accepted. An elected body of soccer association officials need to be taken to task if they refuse to act in a timely, responsible fashion.


It has no bearing whether the official was correct or incorrect in that facts concerning play are incontestable during a match. I too wish to tell you that your ability to agree to disagree with the referee DURING the match is admirable.
I wish also to point out to argue with a referee during a match is ALWAYS unacceptable even if you feel vindicated that the referee is a big bonehead.

When you feel obligated to take action AFTER a match to correct a perceived or real injustice YOU present your SIDE of the three sides as there is ALWAYS three sides Yours, Theirs and the Truth! The unfortunate things about truth is often only part of it comes to light or it battles the untruth of allegation and innuendo

I wear all hats in this game as well. I coach and referee I watch as a proud parent and as a fanatical fan. I play with the passion of the elite but at the skill level of the so so league. I too suffer through decisions at every level that raise my temperature to a high elevation of stress in the immediate but realize my needs, the needs of players, the needs of the referee and the needs of the match all play a part in the decision to take further action or let it go as agreeing to disagree for the good of the game.

Disappointment is part of the reality of life but the finger point of blame provides no resolve, no satisfaction and finally no good to the game.

Do not lay blame, Seek solutions! Seek to FIX things that do not SEEM to work well! Seek to advise, educate, and illuminate . Record, report and FOLLOW through at YOUR end. One can not MAKE others do what one might prefer to see happen . . .

Sometimes those who act, do so in a manner that we could find fault. I do not know HOW your league operates with re guards to protests of match results due to misapplication of the law. I can only speculate those involved made a decision in an ethical and lawful manner.

In the future work on advancing your knowledge and influence, join the effort to MAKE things better by becoming active in the association. Mentoring, training, evaluation, assessing, assigning procedures for refereeing require a serious effort! by people dedicated to both the laws and spirit of the game. Remember it is a Game and it IS supposed to be fun. Do not let the cloud of a poor decision rain on you forever!