Question Number: 18449

Character, Attitude and Control 3/1/2008

RE: Rec Adult

Lorraine Wilson of Keller, tx usa asks...

At the end of my son's soccer game, he approached the referee and asked why he did not add any stoppage time as they had a few stops during the second half. The referee told him he didn't have to and if he didn't be quiet he would give him a yellow card. My son said you can't do that because the game is over and he said I can give you a red if a want and he booked him with a red card. Is this legal?

Thank you

Answer provided by Referee Keith Contarino

Hi Lorraine. Keep in mind we only have your side of the story so there will be some skepticism on our part. Most referees if approached politely after a match are willing to talk with players coaches or fans. I don't know what transpired between the referee and your son. I don't know your son's tone of voice or body language or what transpired during the game. Here's what I DO know. The referee is required to add time that's lost but how much, if any, is up to the referee. He obviously decided no time was needed to be added. The players are under the referees control after the game if still on the field. If your son used insulting or abusive language ( for example telling the referee what his job was) the referee is within rights to show the player the red card. You might ask your son what he accomplished by being disrespectful to this referee. Now he has to sit out at least one game maybe more depending on the referee's report. If a referee appears unapproachable, it's always best to simply walk away and say nothing.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Arguing with a referee is simply NEVER a good idea whether the referee is fair and open minded or bitter and despondent through repeated derision and bad choices. He or she is the referee of the match and it serves no useful purpose to say things off the top the head or in the heat of the moment.

Whether a coach, referee or player those who have problems require mentoring, training, monitoring, assessing, a thank you and possibly a no thank you for continued service. Eventually the conduct and capabilities will sort themselves out over several matches. Experience and wisdom are separate sides of the same coin. Only if that coin is stamped with knowledge to discern the difference is it truly valuable.

There are plenty of parents who have poor parenting skills, players who have poor soccer skills, coaches who lead by reading a book or having good intentions. Is it any different for officials? These are not necessarily bad people simply ill equipped to deal with the challenges they now face. Yet we all know of excellent examples of each does that belittle the efforts of those not at that level?

People are under this illusion that the attitude and conduct they present is not tied into to the conduct and attitude of the others who came before or after. During a match a referee makes thousands of decisions. To run here, go there, see this, look at that, make a choice, make a decision to stop play, allow play to continue .
Through it all 50% of those watching will disagree for nothing more than they have that right even if they have a clue or no clue.

Opinions be they perceived, conjecture or pieced together with thought and care are only an idea based on the available information. Most times we find contrary info in almost any dispute.
This is not necessarily a perversion of truth but rather portions of it laid out to suit the conclusions drawn.

Expectations are at times unrealistic as newer referees regardless of their stature, knowledge or experience are critically judged to be perfect and then fail from that point at every decision taken where those watching will choose to disagree. In an article I wrote a while back it pointedly reminded the reader we can be on the same side when we agree to disagree IF we choose to. Intelligence is not being smarter but accepting that there are generally three sides to most any argument ours, theirs and the truth.

We often remark a referee has his match, his decision his reputation. This quaint saying is our reflection of the importance of setting a standard of excellence which even if those watching do not agree with all we do they are rewarded by accepting us for what we stand for as a basis for consistency and integrity. It is unfortunate but at any moment an unkind word, a harsh reaction or a poor decision can undo a lot of good relevant actions that came before. As my colleague states many of us are willing to impart information in a beneficial manner but time and place play a part. The fair play spirit and attitude of those being asked is compromised if there is not harmony on the pitch.

You say your son asked but instead did the referee hear I blame you!
You say the referee told him but did the referee feel he said I warn you to be careful?
Your son stated an untruth in law likely through being unaware but the referee saw his authority being abused.
The referee showed a red card to your son and added the misconduct into his match report then as facts concerning play they are uncontestable.

As referees most of us are happy to educate enlighten and share opinions with those who deserve an answer. As a coach, player, parent and fan I often wish referees were more forthcoming about certain decisions and curse the leagues and policies that force them not to be able to speak openly because of the perceived impropriety of those sitting in judgment and control. On this panel we have no such constraints and offer a more real view in my opinion. Yes we are at times seen or perceived to be sanctimonious, preachy, sarcastic, caustic and even dry wit and humor are explored within the character of each panel member. We have good answers, many great, some exceptional, others sketchy, confusing, terse or even a few outright wrong.

We are perhaps more often amused then occasionally saddened by those who question the motives of why we are panel members or those who referee. If a referee has integrity and tries to do his best even if that best is not up to snuff thank him or her and reflect on the positive make note on the issues and set them before those who regulate the league to offer advice or correct any imbalance.

In my opinion a player should offer his hand and thank a referee for the match. Anything else is conditional on the reality of the match and the character of those who shake hands!

Information sessions are great ideas but better away from dynamic play of a hotly contested match. Hold them as team meetings to help players and coaches in a clinical setting grasp the laws of the game and their tactical approaches or as information preseason starting introductions to exchange ideas and do the Q&A thing in a code of conduct type setting between all participants {players, parents coaches officials} etc.. in the league.

Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Ben Mueller

Well..yes the referee can do that. Cards can be shown before, during, and after the game. Whether or not this referee made the right decision..is another story. If that is all your son said, then this referee took action because of his ego. We only heard half of the story though - so your son may have said more to this referee.

Answer provided by Referee Debbie Hoelscher

Put simply,yes, the referee has authority over the players, named substitutes and team personnel from the moment they arrive at the field until the moment their car leaves the parking lot.

I have to ask why in the world your son thought it was appropriate to tell the referee how to do his job? Does your son go to a police officer and question him in a manner that suggests he/she is not doing their job "right?' (in your son's opinion anyway). Where does your son get off thinking his opinion is right? Last I checked, the LOTG clearly read "in the opinion of the referee" NOT the player. If it's in the opinion of the player, then why should there even be a referee? Why should the referee even waste their time -- given the whining and complaining that goes on, especially in the recreational adult leagues. The referee is a police officer of the game of soccer. It is the job of the referee to enforce the laws of the game; just as it is the job of a police officer to enforce the laws of the city, state, or country. The referee is able to do this because somewhere in their recent past, they took a 16+ hr course learning the laws of the game, and how to referee. And in the recent past they have on several occasions walked onto the field of play learning how to apply the laws of the game under incredibly stressful conditions -- where else do you show up and everybody sees YOU, the referee, as the enemy. The referee has been invited/contracted to provide a service and without the referee, the game does not get played. Yet no one bothers to thank the referee for their efforts. It's ok that a player misses an obvious shot on goal, makes a poor choice to hold onto the ball rather than pass it to a teammate, or does a lousy job of tending goal. But woe to the referee who might miss a perceived foul here or there. And if there is a difference of opinion about a choice/decision that the referee makes, it is OBVIOUSLY the referee's error (even though he is trained to make these decisions) because the player/coach/parent/spectator is clearly more equipped to make that decision than the referee. And it is equally OBVIOUS that the afore mentioned group of people have some self-proclaimed right to harangue, harass, and otherwise disrespect the authority of the referee because, quite simply they have NO RESPECT for the authority under which the referee operates.

If you truly believe that your son was dealt with "unfairly" then there is recourse by finding the league referee administrator and have a conversation with him. Maybe the referee did not act appropriately. However, it is just as equally possible that your son approached the referee in a way that was completely inappropriate, condemning and out of line. Words said in one manner take on certain meaning, as do the same words, spoken in a very different manner. It's also very possible that your son was no angel during the match and the referee got fed up with it and had enough.

Answer provided by Referee Michelle Maloney

Having only your half of the story makes it hard to judge what was done. As my colleagues note, the referee has authority over the players until they have all left the surrounds of the field, and may issue cards if warranted up until such time. If you truly feel your son was done wrong, the best avenue is to protest the card through the state adult organization. There is a set procedure for that and it may cost a few dollars, and you may not be successful. Log onto the TSSAS website for details. The other thing you can do is to visit with the referee's assignor and express your dismay at the behavior you feel the referee exhibited - specifically that the referee was not giving the players their full measure of playing time as required under the Laws of the Game. You can also complain about the card, but I doubt that will get you much of anything. The assignor will know what to do with the information. Unfortunately, at many of the adult venues, the referees are no more professional in attitude than the players - showing up late, calling the game before time, being improperly dressed and lacking in sufficient experience or knowledge to do a decent job. However, having said that, I can also attest that many of the referees who have the strength and conviction to take on adult games are wonderful at what they do, and take much undeserved grief for their efforts.

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