Question Number: 30121

Law 11 - Offside 2/18/2016

RE: Competitive Adult

Brad of Plymouth, Michigan United States asks...

Men's competitive league, and I was AR, running a line right in front of blue bench. The game was 'hot', with already three yellow cards assessed (two could have been red), and a near-fight. Referee is trying to cool it down so we can finish the last 15 minutes.

White forward is very fast and always 'on the edge' with offside; blue center back is stepping up for a trap against him routinely, so I'm very active as the AR--he has already had three offside offenses in this half (but two breakaway goals to offset those).

White defender clears a ball from just outside his PA and sends it 55-65 yards down and across field towards the edge of blue PA (so opposite my line). White forward is just past midfield in an offside position and it's a sprint to the ball. I follow the play and White gets to ball first, about 10 yards outside PA. I raise flag for offside but referee cannot see me as his eyes are on the play itself (and I am thus out of his vision). Blue bench is yelling 'Referee, offside!' While I'm running with my flag in the air. About 2-3 seconds later, as White forward tries to cut to goal, blue defender kicks him and referee blows whistle. Referee then looks across field and sees me. He first acknowledges me, then indicates 'DFK White' and pauses to record a caution for a reckless foul on Blue.

I assume that he apparently was not recognizing my offside call (which preceded the misconduct). I called out for his attention, indicated again 'offside' and showed 'far side of field' and he acknowledged me. He again indicated 'DFK White', rather than 'IFK Blue'. I tried a third time, coming onto the field and beckoning to him (while again showing proper signs), and he waved me down. He indicated for me to return to spot and I did.

Post-game, he left the field almost immediately so I did not get a chance to clarify with him what he was thinking...my guess is that he simply messed up and thought 'Reckless foul = DFK', which was obviously wrong in this scenario.

As I was running my line adjacent to blue bench, the blue reserves knew the ruling was wrong. They were still appealing to him. One of the players even asked 'Linesman, you know that's wrong--can't you stop him?' I said 'You saw my communication, he has final say in decisions.' I didn't know what to do in this situation...

I recognize the referee was in a tough spot--I think he wanted to be near the players (and not walk 50 yards to talk with me) because he was worried about a mass confrontation (which is why I tried to approach him). But he clearly 'blew it' in terms of assessing the proper restart. So White was given a DFK at the edge of the PA (rather than Blue having an IFK out). White ended up kicking it out of bounds, so there was ultimately no significance to the error.

...so now (finally) my question...

Clearly the situation was tough for the CR, and I understand why he missed my initial signal (this is why the pros have audio links). But what am I to do as an AR in such a situation? As a CR, I would certainly pull my AR over and understand his point of view--I was making clear to him that I wanted to talk. I believe he made a mistake and created what could have been a protestable situation. But given such a situation in the future, do I just 'swallow it' and let the CR take his lumps for his gross error? Or should I have persisted and walked all the way over?

The blue team was ultimately gracious about it (especially since it did not amount to anything). But if it had resulted in a goal and decided the game, this would not have resulted in anything pleasant...

I certainly understand that in the end it is the referee's decision and reputation, so it falls to him. But what to do as an AR when a stubborn referee is in gross error? Thank you

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Brad
Not an easy situation and one that was not of your making. Ultimately it is the referees decision to make and he must have decided that there was no offside based on what he perceived or that he wanted to deal with the penal foul only which was incorrect or that he totally misunderstood the law believe that the more serious offence trumped the offside. That only applies in two simultaneous offences by the same player.
So you did all that you could and then it is up to the referee. Perhaps in the heat of the game he thought you were signalling for the foul? As an AR I have been overruled times and while I did not agree or like it I accepted it fully as the referees call to make. As a CR I have also taken flags that perhaps I did not want or agree with and that was my decision at the time taking into account all the factors.
Now this should have been discussed afterwards in the post match discussion. I had an overrule recently in a game and I asked the CR afterwards for his reasoning and why I thought my flag was correct. We agreed to differ and so be it. I had told him if had to be either a foul (no contact on the ball) or a throw in in the direction I gave if there was contact.
Now the decision here also points to the difficulty with the correct wait and see flag for offside. In many ways it does create and has the potential to create this type of problem as the CR may not believe that there is any offside when he sees the AR running after the play with no indication of a flag. I believe that we have to, without technology, make the opinion that these incidents that can only end in offside that the early flag is best particularly when there is a possibility of contact which is what happened here. The early offside flag would eliminate the outcome here and unless there is the potential for an onside player to get involved then IMO there little issue.in the EPL the instruction is an early flag unless there is the potential for onside. When we wait on what can only be one outcome of offside we can create the problem of the possible collision or misconduct. Correct decision here was a caution for White for misconduct and an IDFK to Blue for offside. That is never a good outcome.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Brad,
communication, and mechanics are for not if there is no faith or trust in the decision making of those who work together. The current LOTG on offside allow for an early flag if the PIOP is the only possible attacking player to get to the ball. It is to prevent needless collisions and an obvious waste of time given his intentions to retrieve the ball he can not play. I think here a hard snap of the flag at the mid-line indicates immediately the striker is offside . The CR must have some idea of the need to glance your way as you indicated 5 previous good decisions. If you did not raise the flag then he may have decided you were ok with the run and thus directed his attention now to ongoing play where the resulting DFK incident occurs. He also may have been under the impression the striker started his run inside his own area before the ball was cleared and in not seeing an immediate flag simply confirmed his view.

There is no protestable situation, your flag was a message to the CR who decides if he wishes to accept it. Offside is an opinion on a fact of play and while an AR duties request he relay information it is the CR's opinion which counts. If offside was protestable a whole lot of game decisions would turn out different! Your raising the flag upon actually contact then running with play is a mechanic I do not like . The impact of you standing still with flag raised at mid-line carries more weight. However, since you waited for a touch by the PIOP before raising the flag and are running with the flag following play that flag is waving about.

It is remotely possible the CR felt you were initially supporting the free kick at first but it is also possible he was waving off the offside which he is entitled to do be it wise or unwise. One never knows when a brain cramp might strike.
As to what the CR was thinking well hopefully you get a chance to talk even a phone call might help put some perspective in view. It is interesting if there were tensions on the field why all the verbal dissent by blue over the offside is not leaking into the CR understanding of why you were trying to talk to him. If anything this was winding up tensions.

I cannot emphasize enough a clear signal we need to talk , simply eye contact point at mouth the CR slides over for a PRIVATE conversation.
You whisper he was offside at the mid-line he whispers no he was ok and its over. Or he goes, oh then the caution is misconduct and INDFK back at the mid line or he rants on you and harshly says I waved you off, now what do you want? Really, no, now lets on with it!

The fact you two did not meet for a private chat is unfortunate a wise CR even if they disagree with the AR must recognize the need to keep up appearances. NO CR should be dismissive of a concerned AR wanting to talk. No AR should be slagging the CR on the touchlines, if blue says hey it was offside you can say I raised my flag he saw it different and waved me off not he was wrong and foolish and this is protestable. That candid conversation is for private post game review when both sides will state there thoughts.

It is unfortunate that ARs often feel ignored by CRs and CRs feel ARs insist too much or are not helpful because though we say we are a team only the actions taken prove that. Not all parties are on the same learning curve or carry the same experience, wisdom or compassion levels all you can do is file what went on and when your turn comes do it better!
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Jason Wright

Hi Brad,

First thing that comes to mind - don't run with the flag. Raise your flag and stand there. In cases like this I'm all for shouting at the ref to get his attention - some oppose it because it 'looks unprofessional', but I think the referee missing a flag and problems arising is far more unprofessional. Still, I wouldn't shout out unless I really felt I had to.

You've made your signal to the referee and he's clearly gone against it, right or wrong. As an AR you do need to accept that decision - repeating the same signal doesn't help anybody and just causes disruption.

Personally, when I feel like a decision is made on a clear misunderstanding, I'd then want to call the referee over to discuss it with him. Then whatever he decides is on him.

If the referee refuses, then you're stuck with it.

I can think of a few reasons why the referee wanted to stick with the DFK rather than the offside, but they're all incorrect. The fact that the tackle was reckless is irrelevant - he can still caution the defender and award the IFK for offside. In this case it's clear the offside offence occurred first.

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