Question Number: 30124

Law 11 - Offside 2/19/2016

RE: Competitive Adult

Brad of Plymouth, Michigan United States asks...

This question is a follow up to question 30121

One bit of information may have been unclear, given the panel's suggestion to 'raise an early flag'. Normally I do that, and make a point to 'snap' the flag--even though that is not recommended--to give an audio. I will even yell 'referee' to avoid a needless collision if such a situation occurs and the only possibility is the attacker getting ball or otherwise interfering.

To help clarify, I have diagrammed what happened here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz-aCGGYZcK9SUNxV2U1WjZxSGs/view?usp=sharing

In this situation the attacker ('forward') was almost perfectly in middle of circle (though on his attacking side), while the nearest defender ('Defender 2') was 'straight' in front of where the ball was ultimately played (so was coming from a different vantage point. The center back ('Defender 1') who should have had the attacker was caught leaning and completely out of play (hence no interference by attacker). Defender 2 was '25 yards away to the attacker's 30-35 yards so it wasn't clear that the attacker was going to get the ball first.

Given a strong likelihood of the defender getting to the ball first and the fact that secondary attackers were coming, I felt no choice but to run with flag in the event of a defensive touch and subsequent secondary attack. Is my reasoning sound in these mechanics, or is it still the referees' suggestion to stop play? Maybe the answer is 'you had to be there', but I greatly appreciate your feedback.

I can't thank you all enough for your valuable contributions to my improvement (and others' improvement). All the best.

Answer provided by Referee Richard Dawson

Hi Brad, we are always happy to help.
I like the format for that diagram! Love to be able to include it in outgoing explanations. Also I believe for recreational play with little crowd noises and no radio the snap flag is of immense benefit than a liability! Eye contact and proper mechanics are rarely developed between ARs and CRs at the lower levels.
Where was CR to start? Where was he at finish? I choose to believe given that diagram the CR had to have looked at you initially for a flag. I have to admit circumstances are sometimes match created but if you were standing with raised flag at the mid-line I think it states the case for offside in incredibly clear terms. Your duties as AR are not compromised if a CR does not blow for offside or wave you off. Until he acknowledges the flag you hold it aloft and stay put. You do that because that WAS the correct decision. You guys had 5 correct decisions earlier so eye contact or the CR was looking over had to be there at some point. If the referee leaves you hanging there, it is his match his decision his reputation . You CLEARLY signaled your decision now the referee must deal with the repercussions that he created in ignoring you!

I know we harp a lot on wait and see flags as better than too early but in cases that develop with possible collision or immediate challenges that PIOP is restricted from play. Perhaps as you say it developed that he would get there as it unfolded but again stop, pop flag and wait! Make your decision as AR let the CR make his! He waves you off then drop flag and run to get back it is all you can do!
Cheers

Answer provided by Referee Joe McHugh

Hi Brad
Thanks for the diagram. Strong likelihood that the referee will look away from the AR once he does not see a flag and then he may not look back again. Therein is the problem without technology.
My contention is that if White forward is the lone forward heading towards the ball and it looks like he is going to get there close to a Blue player then go with the early flag. In someways the AR has to determine if say there is every chance White is going to get there then no problem with the early flag so no chance of contact or collision. Put it like this . Even if Blue gets there first White is still likely to interfere. I would have to see a White onside team mate in very close proximity before I would keep the flag down.
https://vimeo.com/106719400
In this video the AR believes that Red is going to challenge White so he raises the flag. Ref takes the flag.
https://vimeo.com/106719339
Okay let us assume White is clearly offside here. I see nothing wrong with an early flag for offside as it eliminates the potential for possible contact and challenge.
https://vimeo.com/106949742
Nice one here. No potential for anything here other than an early flag. No need to wait and risk contact. Now the Red player looks at the AR for an offside indication and then proceeds thinking she is not offside when the AR does not react.
Probably with an early flag here Red would have stopped yet that would have caused little issue as there is no other onside player likely to get involved in play.
I also make the point that that lower levels of the game offside needs to have less nuances. In the three videos above early flags would cause little issue at lower levels and in fact probably much safer.

The following questions were asked as a follow up to the above question...

See Question: 30128